Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Felipe Conde - So Much for Handcrafted   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Felipe Conde - So Much for Handcrafted 

I didn’t know Conde used a machine for cutting frets.



_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2022 10:44:29
 
Rubino

Posts: 9
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I think the automation of fret slotting is okay.

Hopefully there is still a good deal of craftsmanship that goes into the guitar tops and bracing.

_____________________________

Yamaha CG171SF
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2022 18:10:40
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

On the other hand, try an electric guitar built with CNC from Thomman.de - they blow Fender and Gibson out of the water for 1/10th of the price.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2022 19:35:35
 
Rubino

Posts: 9
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

The guy in the red shirt (shown at the beginning of this video) didn't get the memo. Either that or maybe he's now unemployed.



_____________________________

Yamaha CG171SF
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2022 20:51:46
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Escribano

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

On the other hand, try an electric guitar built with CNC from Thomman.de - they blow Fender and Gibson out of the water for 1/10th of the price.


I thought most electric guitar bodies and necks were made using CNC. US companies are designing guitars and using Chinese manufacturers to produce them. Some of these guitars are under $200 and are better than Gibson’s Epiphone line. Chinese companies have been at this for at least 20 years so they have the parts and templates available.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2022 21:37:23
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

I thought most electric guitar bodies and necks were made using CNC


Sure, but Thomman's prices and quality are the differentiators. I have two from them and there is really not much you need to do to them.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2022 8:47:23
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14642
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Rubino

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rubino

The guy in the red shirt (shown at the beginning of this video) didn't get the memo. Either that or maybe he's now unemployed.




That is the same guy, and probably the same day based on the video uploads. It is clear in the “machine” video, that guy in the red shirt was trying out the new alternative method as per Felipe’s suggestion.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2022 17:49:29
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 551
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

For 99 percent of guitar customer needs, machines are better at this stuff than humans.

Yes I know the to err is human quote.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 25 2022 19:54:38
 
ernandez R

Posts: 726
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Buffing out my latest today, #14, and seeing all the flaws here and there and thinking could a machine do better?

I use a most of the power shop tools one way or another but the wood still gets pushed or pulled through by my hands and fingers. I use a little belt sander like Anders had but clamped to the wall with a wood bracket instead of a vice for a hundred little details, still it takes the magic of my fingertips to make the parts right.

A few years ago there were some cheap classical guitars from china in a music store but the fit of the wood was impeccable, they had a vary thin flat finish so no thick gobs of clear plastic in the creases etc. They were strung with some impossibly thick strings and sounded charitorless as in no tonal variation from saddle to the top of the sound hole: over built "to survive the retail event"

In the end you play the guitar you fall. in love with regardless of its origin, sure many need to brag about this or that guitar, my strings are lower then yours, etc... I still play my first guitar every day but when I play one of my others its like, oh ya!

With todays technology machines could replicate all the checks we do with flexing wood, bridge rotation, and top lifting, doming etc, sensors could give feedback and in the end fine tune braces etc, right up to mechanizing all the Magic Tom does with his fingertip tuning.

Just play the dang thing best you can.

Ol'e

HR

ps. been cutting back on my social media cause, but I still read the Foro every day.

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2022 21:37:50
 
Echi

 

Posts: 1108
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Machinery is very good for this kind of stuff. It makes it fast and precise: the human touch wouldn’t add anything more.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2022 10:51:24
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to ernandez R

quote:



With todays technology machines could replicate all the checks we do with flexing wood, bridge rotation, and top lifting, doming etc, sensors could give feedback and in the end fine tune braces etc, right up to mechanizing all the Magic Tom does with his fingertip tuning.



I don’t think we’re quite there yet. If scientists could replicate a Stradivarius violin I’m sure they would. At least when it comes to high-end violins there is a demand and the money is there.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2022 13:02:09
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3416
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Echi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Machinery is very good for this kind of stuff. It makes it fast and precise: the human touch wouldn’t add anything more.


Alan Carruth has done a lot of very ingenious scientific measurement of guitars. He says we can distinguish good guitars from bad guitars by measurement, but we can't tell good guitars from great guitars.

A good luthier accounts for the variability of wood. A mechanical setup to produce great guitars would have to duplicate that process. Such a mechanical process would require a way of evaluating its work. Carruth says we can't do such an evaluation via scientific measurements yet. There has to be a human in the loop.

I don't know whether the luthier evaluating the results constitutes a "human touch" under your definition of the term.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2022 1:30:44
 
Echi

 

Posts: 1108
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

In general there is a lot to say about it.
Stages like the choice of the right piece of wood, gluing, thicknessing, voicing, assembling etc. are better done by a skilled hand.
On the other hand, things like the frets slots (or the head slots for instance) are better done by a machinery and I see no possible counter effect for the tone.
For years the main employees of Ramirez were given the boards already thicknessed to 2.8 mm, the necks already half- prepared with their machined slots, the squared wood for the struts. From there each maker could go further down by hand, each by their skills.
In the last years even Ramirez used to have such a fret slot machine.
I see nothing wrong with it as the main part comes when you go thin and start assembling.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2022 11:03:07
 
etta

 

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Maybe they need to do more sanding? Each of the 7-8 Condes that I have played had enough wood in them for 2-3 guitars, and dead they were.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2022 17:07:08
 
Echi

 

Posts: 1108
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Felipe Conde - So Much for Handc... (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

My 81 Conde is a long scale at 2.8 mm thick at the top and it’s lovely guitar really.
My 64 Conde is around 2.4 mm thick. Not thin.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2022 10:39:28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.