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My Faustino Conde story
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Jonnycake
Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
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 My Faustino Conde story
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As a new member I would like to offer my little tale of how I acquired this pearl of my guitar collection, a 1983 media luna.
My 2000 Dias flamenco now sadly sits alone and unplayed these days because she has been cast aside for a new and brighter flame.
Ever since Manuel Diaz of Granada sent me his best student model( that I offered a nice microphone as downpayment while hanging about in his shop during a 3 month stay some years ago)..this was my go to Spanish guitar.
Fast forward to recent events that saw my GAS for a high end flamenco guitar realized through a father's inheritance gift to myself..as a enthusiastic but non professional musician would my father approve, I wonder?
My esteemed and respected teacher always said " when your ready,we'll find you a good guitar" and now with fingers failing and distant lands far from the flamenco world in his sights,a variety of top end guitars were available from this trusted source.
I wasnt going to barter or badger a super low price,this was my mentor's only retirement money source after all and as I said,I trust my teacher's advice.
I did want to know however how he went about choosing this particular guitar because we all seen the stories about the many fake or lesser Condes..
I will relate this as it was told to me without names of course but I'm sure there are some here who know of whom I speak.
So my teacher ,even though living and playing with the gitanos of jerez found that the first visits to gravina street weren't productive. It was only after a letter written from a friend who runs a shop in Seville verifying his status that they brought out the " good stuff" for him to try.
So after all day with about 13 guitars to try,this one which I now call my own ,was chosen.
I paid a good price without much haggling because this is my teachers only source of retirement income and again,you have to trust your mentor.
In retrospect I kind of wish I had sat down with all of his inventory which included a Reyes,Barba,Phillipe Conde and...a 1994 Arcangel.
Dont get me wrong, I love my 1983 Conde..she's the most perfect resonating and beautiful sounding guitar I've ever played but sometimes when i really dig in I'm thinking that this one might not be perfect for me.
She has been played a lot and while in excellent shape for a 38 year old guitar the frets are getting low and I'm wishing for more volume,a more explosive voice..I dont quite know how to describe it and I'm feeling guilty even thinking about it..I mean who am I to want/ deserve anything better!!
But heres the rub,the Arcangel is still available and with full trade in value for my Conde offered because of the bloody high cost of this pretty well mint '94 blanca..I'm actually thinking about trading in my lovely Condi as I call her.
So that's my tale ..please flame away if you please or offer some advice..I'll be appreciate no matter what..
Thanks for reading!
Jon
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Date Aug. 31 2020 16:30:49
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TonyGonzales84
Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA
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RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake)
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This gets to be reeeeeal delicate, but, in another field of interest, there's a saying, "don't sneak them into the house." This relates to the red to blanca change. If something permanent happens to you, your widow may get taken by unscrupulous buyers, in undervaluing your goods, when she sells them. This is real, and hard as heck for all of us former little boys -- I tend to take my lumps, up front (yeah, that couch is sometimes pretty comfortable!). 
_____________________________
Tony
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Date Sep. 1 2020 3:02:19
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mt1007
Posts: 162
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
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RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake)
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Jonnycake,
Average sales in todays market for Arcagel is about low 13K to high 17K. I've seen them even at 20K. To sell at these prices, it would take a very long time. With current state of things not so many people would or could hand over that amount of cash. If an Arcangel went to auction, your talking about 7K to 9K tops.
Keep the 83 especially if its signed. I've had many Condes, sold some. Of the ones I got right now my 68 is my fav. It's a players guitar, it's got two big cracks on top but I dont care, its the best sounding Conde I've ever owned. I got a 72 in mint conditions that is bad ass, but the 68 just feels extremely light with pegs, very hollow sound, muy flamenca.
Anyways man, if you can get an Arcangel that has great sound and play-ability then get it. I have only tried one and it was good but not 20K good.
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Date Sep. 1 2020 17:11:16
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Echi)
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To answer Tom, Ricardo Sanchis worked consistently for the Gravina and Atocha shop from mid nineties.
He was also among those making the Felipe V first class guitars but just few of them and just for few years. Sanchis used to take care of the varnishing process.
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Dear Tom,
In response to your comments above, it strikes me that a Sanchis model A-26 would have been a student model. I believe that during that time, Sanchis still had some employees so my best guess is that he did not build the guitar himself. It was most likely built by an employee. Ricardo himself would have made the design, and sprayed the finish, as well as doing some of the high skill steps but I suspect just by knowing the organization of his operation at the time that he personally had only a small part in the building of the instrument himself. This would be even more so the case if the label reads Ricardo Sanchis Carpio and not Hermanos Sanchis Lopez. Somewhere back in those days the name on the label was changed, looking forward to the time when the son's would take over with the inevitable march in time. That way the son's names would be better established when he would be forced to lay down his tools. At the time, it strikes me that his shop was producing a minimum of 200 guitars a year and most likely not more than 350 guitars a year...that is all a wild guess. I stopped importing his guitars in 2007 and he still had employees at that time. Whether either of his son's had a hand in the building is still anybody's guess. I was not closely following his flamenco work since I am a classical guitarist and had contacts for the sale of the classical models. When I started with him, his classical models were, 3a , 2a, 1a. the 3a had a laminated back and was very much a student instrument. later he introduced a model 1a-b which was above the 2a, but below the 1a and changed the 1a to the 1a EXTRA and if it was in Brazialian rosewood it would be the 1a-EXTRA-R or maybe the 1a-R. He eventually dropped the 3a model probably about the time that his sons started working in the shop while they were still apprentices. Eventually he dropped everything less than the 1a-b. I know that he had many flamenco models. I am not acquainted with the A-26 model specifically, but it would have been one of the lower if not the lowest model and I think that the models changed names from time to time. My best guess is that this would have been on the level of the 2a or 3a in the classical models His more serious models in flamenco would have been the 1a-F which would have been on the level of the 1a-b in classical and the 1a-EXTRA-F or it might have been the 1a-F-EXTRA which would have been at the level of the 1a-EXTRA in classical. After 2007 and I do not know exactly when, his last employee retired and it became an operation of just him and his son's. At that time the model that Ricardo Sanchis himself would have made was known as the model "RSC" for Ricardo Sanchis Carpio. The "a" after the numbers is simply the spanish equivalent of 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th etc. but in Spanish is is all a. The comparison made on the chat is to me simply saying that Arcangel Fernandes is better than a student guitar. That's not rocket science! That the comparison would even dare to be made demonstrates to me the true power of the name thatA-26 Sanchis has been able to develop over the years. He simply was the most experienced and most prolific Spanish Guitar maker of all time. When he finally came down to building only top quality guitars, he eventually made a special order for Paco de Lucia, who called him and asked for a special kind of sound which he was able to produce and was used on one of Paco's final recordings if not his very last.
There is my best answer to the question about the Question about the Sanchis A-26.
_____________________________
Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Sep. 4 2020 13:34:24
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Tom Blackshear)
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quote:
There is my best answer to the question about the Question about the Sanchis A-26.
Wow, really? People seem like they missed the mountains of conde threads here at Foro 
First of all the A26 is super damn famous as the UNIQUE designation for Conde HERMANOS top pro cypress Flamenco from ONLY from the Felipe V address (Mariano jr and Felipe) from 1989 to 2010. So many pros used this guitar and her rosewood sister (A25) during that time it’s not funny, and the unfounded rumors that it spawned persist to the present.
1. There has never surfaced any hard evidence or admission, only conflicting eye witness Bigfoot-sighting type accounts of people that claim the guitars from Felipe V address were made elsewhere, or certain Heard-it-through-the-grape vine stories that the makers had outside help for ANY of the A MODELS. In the day and age that people can’t even entertain a secret thought anymore without it becoming cellphone headline news, I find this fact HILARIOUS!!!!!!! I guess Echi implies Sanchis sprayed the orange poly? Where is the evidence?
2.There has been no evidence that Gravina address didin’t make their guitars in house during the above period except for the obvious fact it’s run not by builders but by the builders widow. Claims these guitars are built in Granada or valencia are probable but no clear admission. I believe prices were equivalent to Felipe V guitars.
3. Atocha address Conde guitars indeed I have seen first hand evidence (stamps on soundboard) that low end guitars were built by Sanchis Carpio. These guitars shared design details in terms of rosette bridge plantilla scale length finish etc....and ultimately PRICE. In fact so did the Felipe V B model guitars or student studio guitars etc. I believe this simple hard evidence, and confusion about the 3 different houses selling under one name, fueled the flames of conspiracy that ALL guitars name “conde hermanos” are associated with Sanchis Carpio and sons.
But the glaring problem I have with the idea that A26 could be built by Sanchis Carpio and Sons is I have played dozens of both makes. Why on earth would Sanchis build a guitar for Conde brothers, to be sold at higher prices, that was orders of magnitude SUPERIOR to ANYTHING from their own line???? I mean I get the idea of selling guitars based on the name of the label and history of the house...but the Atocha condes sure look and feel like sanchis and are priced appropriately. But A26, different scale, rosette, feel, plantilla, and priced very different.
The fact YOU asked if MY A26 was built by Sanchis shows the persistence of the myth, and the fact you received a confused message by someone closely associated with Sanchis that didn’t even know what an A26 (lowest student model Sanchis? ) even is, basically puts more evidence in that there is no connection to the old Felipe V house and it’s just more confusion thanks to Atocha’s business practice.
Still I welcome true evidence anyone has to the contrary.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Sep. 4 2020 15:15:14
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake)
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quote:
Possibly my only beef is that the prices being asked are not reflective of today's market and may be overly optimistic on what they are truly worth at least today.
Unfortunately the market slowed and plateaued between the change from peseta to euro and the 2008 disasters. So your 5K old condes and ramirez still hold their value but I know people thought back then that by now they would be 10k or double on the investment. So the range for Conde used is 3-7k depending on what shape it’s in and how bad the person wants to unload it. Arcangel are super rare due to the ridiculous practice of only sending new guitars to japan. So Ive only played 3...two really mediocre and the great one in the video. 10-20k used, thanks to Guitar Salon for trying to keep the value high on those. My treasure luxury guitar is Jeronimo Peña Fernandez, beautiful ornate carved vintage and flamenco sounding negra... it was relatively cheap despite being rare and I don’t get that. To me Arcangel is super inflated like Reyes, it’s weird to me why but it’s just the way it is. Yes it will stay that way so if you drop 20k, there is a chance that one of your heirs could sell it and make it all back. No doubt this Pandemic sh1t has put someone in the bad position that you could and should take advantage of (10k for Arcangel cuz someone needs that cash to feed the family).
Meanwhile I have my dad’s guitar that is almost useless to me, it’s classical. I have a print out of a Christies auction of the same year make and model. If I could unload it for that I could get an Arcangel, two condes, and a Jeronimo. But you know, it was my dads, so I keep it and do some tremolos and stuff, a little Bach. Guitar market is hilarious.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Sep. 4 2020 18:58:50
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