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Flamenco meets his older brother   You are logged in as Guest
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devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

Flamenco meets his older brother 

I have to admit the reason why I'm here is this. It was not PdL or someone else. Who's here for the same reason?





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2020 17:34:39
 
rombsix

Posts: 7257
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

I should be, but I'm not. It was PdL for me (even though I lived in Beirut at the time). LOL

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 4:38:02
 
chester

Posts: 769
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

good stuff devilhand, thanks for posting!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 0:52:35
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

Hi devilhand; i was just hangin around and saw your post by coincidence. I was really surprised when i listened to the music you shared. The music style and the instrument being played here is also one of the good examples of the Classical Turkish Music. The İnstrument is called " Ud" in our language. There are some more instruments which are really unique and sound really nice in this traditional kind. Here i share a link that you can listen to different kinds of pieces. All of them are performed with a "Ud" and all of them has a different form just like flamenco. Form is called "Makam" in this type of music. Like "Hicaz", " Kürd-i", " Nihavent" and so on...If you already knew what i explained here about this music and the instrument and its relation between Turkish music , then sorry to take your time :) But if not,and you are really interested in what you will hear, i can try to answer any question you'll ask. Take care.

Heres the link..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_42SUGDoc
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 21:06:58
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3020
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

quote:

Here i share a link that you can listen to different kinds of pieces.


hey Boran, you can embed the video in the post by ticking the box "Embed picture in post" underneath where you write the text, and then pasting the link here like this:



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 21:17:16
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to mark indigo

Hello Mark; thanks you just let me learn that :)) Thats more practical and gonna look much better. I'll do it next time
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 21:29:30
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3020
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 14:29:53
 
edguerin

Posts: 1536
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

Back in the 60ies, when as a kid I lived in Beirut and Saudi Arabia I got hooked on modal music. But it was PdL and Paco Cepero (and I'm ashamed to say Manitas de Plata) that got me hooked on Flamenco a decade later

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 17:28:37
 
ernandez R

Posts: 189
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

I have always been surprised how my mind and perhaps my soul has been attracted to these modal musics. As a child raised in Southern California; my mother played Elvis, Harry Belafonte, and Strauss Waltzes on her record player and my father listen to old school country western on the AM radio in his dusty old pickup truck.

There was one album with Belafonte and a popular Greek singer Mousekouri cut in '66 which has what I believe to be a handful of Greek standards. I was born in '65 so sure I was listening to this fairly early and often. I still play the album today as it is one of my top ten of all time.

I always had this idea that our brains become wired through exposure to the tonal modes we are first exposed to and most likely while still in utero.

The other idea as there may be a more basic genetic predisposition to certain rhythmic and tonal values.

Regardless I find these so called eastern musics more satisfying then the Bach-esc music of the west in so many ways. Perhaps Im Just bored with western music. Now I'm wondering if one exposed to only eastern music finds a similar opposite fascination?

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 19:25:43
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12093
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to ernandez R

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernandez R

I have always been surprised how my mind and perhaps my soul has been attracted to these modal musics. As a child raised in Southern California; my mother played Elvis, Harry Belafonte, and Strauss Waltzes on her record player and my father listen to old school country western on the AM radio in his dusty old pickup truck.

There was one album with Belafonte and a popular Greek singer Mousekouri cut in '66 which has what I believe to be a handful of Greek standards. I was born in '65 so sure I was listening to this fairly early and often. I still play the album today as it is one of my top ten of all time.

I always had this idea that our brains become wired through exposure to the tonal modes we are first exposed to and most likely while still in utero.

The other idea as there may be a more basic genetic predisposition to certain rhythmic and tonal values.

Regardless I find these so called eastern musics more satisfying then the Bach-esc music of the west in so many ways. Perhaps Im Just bored with western music. Now I'm wondering if one exposed to only eastern music finds a similar opposite fascination?

HR


Yes there is something important there. In fact it’s what happened to Be bop jazz...I love the juxtaposition of Coltrane on Giant steps (harmonically dense and fast) vs his work on Kind of Blue (modal and slow). I personally love both. I love the complexity of fast moving harmony and complex polyphony and also just lydian Vamp or drone all day long, one 7 note scale. Mclaughlin is a guy inspired by this concept and his latest work with Zakir Hussein is imposing interesting harmonies over top of traditonal static drone pieces.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 23:55:05
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boran

Hi devilhand; i was just hangin around and saw your post by coincidence. I was really surprised when i listened to the music you shared. The music style and the instrument being played here is also one of the good examples of the Classical Turkish Music. The İnstrument is called " Ud" in our language. There are some more instruments which are really unique and sound really nice in this traditional kind. Here i share a link that you can listen to different kinds of pieces. All of them are performed with a "Ud" and all of them has a different form just like flamenco. Form is called "Makam" in this type of music. Like "Hicaz", " Kürd-i", " Nihavent" and so on...If you already knew what i explained here about this music and the instrument and its relation between Turkish music , then sorry to take your time :) But if not,and you are really interested in what you will hear, i can try to answer any question you'll ask. Take care.

Heres the link..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_42SUGDoc

I'm not familiar with this music. I've always liked this kind of sound and wanted to play it on guitar. I wonder what is the purpose of this silence (about 3-5 seconds) between short phrases. They don't seem to relate to each other. Another thing is the long intro. For example, in the second video I uploaded, the singer starts singing at 5:40.

To me, the oud music from Egypt in my video and the music, obviously Turkish, in your video sound the same. I guess there must be a difference between them and also between Turkish and Arabian oud instrument. Could you please elaborate on this?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 15:13:42
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3026
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to ernandez R

quote:

There was one album with Belafonte and a popular Greek singer Mousekouri cut in '66 which has what I believe to be a handful of Greek standards.


Harry Belafonte is one of my all-time favorite singers. I still have a vinyl copy of his 1956 album "Calypso," with "Day-O," "Jamaica Farewell," "Brown Skin Girl," and others. Great stuff. I also have a vinyl album by Nana Mouskouri. She sang in 12 different languages, and her voice was beautiful in all of them. The joint Belafonte-Mouskouri album came out, I believe, in 1966, the year Belafonte invited Mouskouri to tour with him. Nana Mouskouri wore black-framed glasses that looked very good on her. The story goes that Belafonte suggested she not wear the glasses while performing. Mouskouri was distraught and almost quit the tour, so Belafonte relented.

I have always loved the sound of Eastern music and singing, beginning with Bulgaria and Greece and moving east into Turkey and the Arab Near East. The Bulgarian tambura, Greek bouzouki, and Arab oud all have that haunting minor key that, to my ear, never quite reaches resolution.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 15:50:04
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

Hi devilhand. "Taksim" means the enterance part of the song in Turkish Classical music.One of the performers (can be any instrument) performs an opening ,presents the form of the song and the song starts.The album i shared is a collection of these openings of the songs so the song never starts.

There are 3-5 seconds silences, because in "Taksim" theres no tempo, ne metronome.It is performend all independent untill the song starts. I will share a video for that.

And finally, the similarity of the kinds you mentioned is a result of the origin of this music. Actually they are all same, coming from Arabian culture. So i can clearly say that Turkish Classical music is not really Turkish Music. Its a form lasted and kind of developed since the Ottoman Empire did exist.It was performed in the palace of the Sultan , in the times which there were some kind of encounters with the Arabs i guess.Real Turkish music is the folk music being performed in different geographic areas in the country. Also they have very different forms between,depending on the area.Just like flamenco.I d like to share an example of that too. I hope i could answer your question in some ways. Take care.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 22:09:18
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

This is an example of a Turkish Classical song and the form is "Muhayyer Kürd-i" with a Taksim.The instrument is called "Kanun".

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 22:26:23
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

This cover is an example showing how Turkish Folk and Flamenco are similar in some forms. This is a very old song very well known in Turkiye and fits really nice on that flamenco style.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 22:54:24
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12093
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

Then we have this masterpiece!!!! Çok guzel



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2020 20:14:54
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Ricardo

Hey Ricardo, thats a really nice rumba performance of you & your friend and a beautiful slide of fantastic places.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2020 20:37:54
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boran

Hi devilhand. "Taksim" means the enterance part of the song in Turkish Classical music.One of the performers (can be any instrument) performs an opening ,presents the form of the song and the song starts.The album i shared is a collection of these openings of the songs so the song never starts.

There are 3-5 seconds silences, because in "Taksim" theres no tempo, ne metronome.It is performend all independent untill the song starts. I will share a video for that.

And finally, the similarity of the kinds you mentioned is a result of the origin of this music. Actually they are all same, coming from Arabian culture. So i can clearly say that Turkish Classical music is not really Turkish Music. Its a form lasted and kind of developed since the Ottoman Empire did exist.It was performed in the palace of the Sultan , in the times which there were some kind of encounters with the Arabs i guess.Real Turkish music is the folk music being performed in different geographic areas in the country. Also they have very different forms between,depending on the area.Just like flamenco.I d like to share an example of that too. I hope i could answer your question in some ways. Take care.



Thanks Boran. Do you know which is the best way to learn to play oud?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2020 0:41:48
 
Boran

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

Hey devilhand.Youre always welcome. Like all the instrumens best way is to learn from a teacher who is good at this instrument but if you do not have that chance practicing on the instrument by the help of the methods and the tutorials,videos would work in some ways. I think its not necessary to mention the importance of listening the music kind which you ll perform by oud. And as i ve been told ,strings and the notation of oud is similar to guitar. As this is a fretless instrument it going to take some time to get used to the keyboard but also it will be a nice experience to hear that fretless tone while your fingers slide on the keyboard.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2020 8:44:00
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to Boran

quote:

As this is a fretless instrument it going to take some time to get used to the keyboard but also it will be a nice experience to hear that fretless tone while your fingers slide on the keyboard.

Yeah, playing fretless instrument would be a totally new experience for me. In particular, the tone one can create on that is haunting and beautiful. I'm looking forward to it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2020 13:19:49
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

Which ones sound more flamenco to you?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2020 21:23:31
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 601
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Flamenco meets his older brother (in reply to devilhand

These days I'm hooked on the intro of this arab music at 0:00-0:23. The intro uses D phrygian mode with added major 3rd (F#).



Timbaland sampled this intro and it became a hit song back then.
I think the song is modal and in E phrygian. Am I right?
The vamp uses E phrygian with added G# like Solea. This is the instrumental of the song. Sounds really cool too.



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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2020 22:25:01
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