Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





First cedar soundboard   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1512
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

First cedar soundboard 

"Luthier and organologist MARIO GRIMALDI from Crotone (Italy) in his book dedicated to Pietro Gallinotti (1885-1979) reports that this luthier from Solero, as far back as 1952, had built a guitar with a soundboard made from Thuja Plicata, a wood also known as Western Red Cedar. This guitar was awarded a prize in a lutherie competition in Torino that same year. This guitar pre-dates by at least ten years the famous instruments from the Jose Ramirez III shop in Madrid, which has traditionally been credited as the first to use this material for the soundboard."
https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=31971

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2020 13:20:39
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Hi Ethan Deutsch,

I think at this time in history the cedar cost was near to nothing, as I can remember. However the spruce was abundantly available at very reasonable cost.

I think it was the progressive availability of spruce and cedar that helped Ramirez switch to the cedar for a lot of his guitars. The cost of cedar still remained low.

I can remember hunting for cedar at the lumber yard and finding some real good boards to work with. But now-a-days I just ask LMII to send me the best they have.

Don't forget the Fleta Bros.

I think that these two makers are referenced to be the major proponents of the cedar tops.

Also, a relatively unknown maker in Dallas Texas built a redwood top for some if his creations in the early 50's that Pepe Romero fell in love with.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2020 17:04:39
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1668
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Isn’t Thuja Plicata a cypress kind? Same as redwood?

I do not know a lot about woods, but owned once a redwood topped guitar.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2020 19:09:39
 
Echi

 

Posts: 968
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

It’s just what you call a western red cedar top or cedar top. Probably the majority of guitars today are made with cedar top while redwood or sequoia top are rarely used.
Ramirez III claimed to have been the first one discovering how good this wood can be in guitar making and in fact almost all the Ramirez guitars from 1965 on are cedar topped. Fleta followed the path shortly after but Ramirez for sure made this wood famous.
Manuel Bellido also claimed to be the first one having made a guitar with such a wood.
Eventually Gallinotti anticipated the two of them of 10 years.
Gallinotti is not very well known outside of Italy and yet he is probably one of the greatest Italian luthiers ever.
Segovia, just to name one, used to have great consideration of the man but he was an humble man who never made great money.
to many Gallinotti is in the same league of Hauser.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2020 21:27:51
 
johnguitar

 

Posts: 181
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
 

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Please read this thread. https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=98820 Gerhard Oldiges (gjo) is a guitar-maker and guitar historian and guitar-maker Scott Tremblay is an expert in historical instruments. Their comments are very convincing about the Germans being the first to use cedar for soundboards.

_____________________________

John Ray
https://www.johnguitar.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2020 8:56:44
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1512
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to gerundino63

Gerundino63--No, Thujica plicata is not a cypress; it is Western Red Cedar.

I just thought this subject should be memorialized here.

Thanks johnguitar for the link.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2020 3:33:57
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3194
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuja_plicata

"Thuja plicata, commonly called western red cedar[2] or Pacific red cedar,[3] giant arborvitae or western arborvitae,[3] giant cedar,[3] or shinglewood,[3] is a species of Thuja, an evergreen coniferous tree in the cypress family Cupressaceae native to western North America. It is not a true cedar of the genus Cedrus."

There are a great number of common or commercial names for timbers that go against the scientific name of the species. I certainly wouldn't use the word "cypress" when buying a cedar guitar top, but maybe a taxonomist would use the word when discussing the species.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 22 2020 1:03:44
 
Echi

 

Posts: 968
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: First cedar soundboard (in reply to constructordeguitarras

It’s good to know but it’s not that relevant.
I mean, in all honesty, that it’s important just for statistics if an unknown maker used a cedar top for the first time for an unknown Viennese guitar in 1900.
I think that Gallinotti deserves praise for his intuition (He used different woods for the top at the time) as much as Ramirez deserves the merit to have spread first rate cedar topped guitars all around the world.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 23 2020 8:39:16
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.