RE: Mariano Conde

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RE: Mariano Conde

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Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

man its really like a soap opera , more a WWE argument

Even Bernal have something to say lmfao
jesus..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 15:34:31

Piwin

Posts: 3563
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

(damn it, now I'm stuck looping that "ay me duele" at 5:42. Comedy gold.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2024 16:15:12

elias

Posts: 37
Joined: Nov. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Soon we will see all the hot shot players using MC guitars on the Solera channel.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 0:43:37

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to elias)

el Ciego is one of my favourites from the youngsters , great energy , great flow , seems to love performing live , puts a great show

Great Raimundo 145 guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 11:08:51

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

right now im watching to Rafael Riqueni concert on Mezzo , dressed with a rouge velvet suit lol and a Mariano Conde Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 12:12:56

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to elias)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elias

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Soon we will see all the hot shot players using MC guitars on the Solera channel.

Oh no, I hate being right! But that guitar sounds pretty good. And looks kind of old IMO. Is that MC??? And why are responses OUTSIDE of the quote box getting pushed into the quote box automatically?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 16:32:52

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

I am incapable of buying a guitar tan chula as to have the initials of the¨constructor written on the tapa.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2024 17:16:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

I am incapable of buying a guitar tan chula as to have the initials of the¨constructor written on the tapa.

Looks like he forgot to do it on Jesus Guerrero’s guitar. Ooooooops!

Even so, what a smooth easy like butter those guitars provide for the player’s picados, like at 1:26 for example (

)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2024 17:27:09

JasonM

Posts: 2057
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I'm confused (I didn't watch all 3 hours of the vijeos) and maybe missed something..

Why would Solera bring up the Conde outsourcing thing when they sell Conde guitars in their own shop? That could potentially scare off buyers, no?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2024 17:49:16

ernandez R

Posts: 742
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to JasonM)

The whole dust up sounds more and more like a poorly produced reality tv show.

“No such thing as bad publicity”

Bet the analytics are showing a huge spike for “Conde”

I tell anyone who buys a guitar to play it and disregard the name on the label or the price of the tuners etc. Most of all,” don’t buy a new set of strings”

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should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2024 18:55:11

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to JasonM)

well , they tryied to make a proposal to Mariano and his son answer the phone , Jordi machine gun him with a lot of ideas and didnt gave him the opportunity to talk , so he said "see you later aligator" and hang up the phone on Jordi (solera).

the issue wasnt just the factory scheme , they also said that their new Soleras laminated "cheap" model (marcelo.) are the same or even improved than some Conde or his Conde (cant recall) lol and of course this was outrage and very funny

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2024 20:52:39

JasonM

Posts: 2057
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2024 1:46:35

elias

Posts: 37
Joined: Nov. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

What do we think of Solera in general, without all this Conde drama? They seem to have a few luthiers they really like (Sanchez, Rashe, Barba) these days and hype them. My dealings with Jordi have always been prompt and excellent. And inter-Conde rivalry puts me off them more than anything Jordi can say, and I do like the sound of some Condes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2024 22:07:54

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to elias)

well , i dont have any kind of relation with them , just a viewer of their content, that normally i enjoy.

The pandoras box that they openned was a surprise , a surprise because it came from a company (solera ) and not from a youtuber or a random guy that tries guitars and compare them and also likes to talk about makers and gives insiders view to warn , advice and teach the average joe consumer (me). By the way i didnt research about this stuff on youtube (guitarreros , tallers that outsource their guitars etc) , is there anyone doing this? compare flamenco/classic guitars and talks openly about this and give insider view? maybe not (?) and thats also really strange that no one talks about it ..

One issue is , why and or why now? is the information given to the public by Solera had good intention or it was only released for some kind of vendeta?
If you see the video that i posted on Felipe Conde topic , Solera released a video promoting their new cheap laminated Marcelo Barbero model that costs almost 900 eu and making a comparation with a Felipe Conde Oro model that costs 10k... lmfao , and talkin about the quality of woods , good laminated models vs small unknowed guitarreros massive wood ones or vs supose guitarreros that might outsource , by the way in the video they consider Esteve to be the best "taller" with a production line.
If you ear both , theres not a big difference in sound if theres one .. he was smart and choose two "modern" flamenco guitars and... choose that less good(?) Conde for a reason , theres a lot of really good expensive and cheaper guitars that have way way better sound than both , traditional or modern ones.. if you ear some Alberto Pantoja (sevilha) or Abraham Ortega (sevilha) or other similiar guitarrero (theres dozens good ones) you will remember this , and im not talkin about their 4000k ones that are really good , but a average one like for almost 2k or so that are also really nice.
My cheap Paco Castillo sounds much better , any Prodigio or Gitano from Bernal etc. , and are with solid woods , even my with american cypress ..
I tried an Anders El. some years ago and it was way better that the sound of that 10k Conde , and the price was cheap in comparation (2k or 2k someting cant remeber)

So , it was a little bit kind of a cheap trick from Solera , but if was a guy doing it on youtube without a company behind the same? maybe not because he doesnt have comercial relations , but Solera does...
On another hand , they might told the truth..but it was kind of gossip , things that we talk with friends or beetween conversations with luthiers/guitarreros and not all of them does...

Dont know what kind of relation you have with them , and if envolves trust and some big bucks. If you are just a buyer and dont have big orders and personal relation , i dont see any issue , but if you are... maybe you might re consider .

Funny that Valeriano Bernal also came with a strange conversation with a lot of ...let me think... gossip and atacks to someone (singular or plural) and promissed to talk more about that. You can also check the video that i posted from him.
Strange as Fuc*

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2024 23:02:23

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Look, here in the foro we have been discussing about Conde since 2007 and many of us told (more or less) the same things Jordi referred.
The discussion started after the death of Faustino.
Nobody discusses the quality of the Conde guitars made in the Faustino era; I recently watched a video of Arcangel Fernandez saying he liked those flamenco guitars as well.

Clearly the guitars sold by Faustino's former shop in Calle Gravina were low quality (since 1990) and clearly made in Valencia and all the problems started from there.

The best guitars from '89 on are those made in the Conde Shop lead by Felipe and Mariano based in Calle Felipe V.
How were those guitars made? I have an interview of Felipe Conde issued in 1993 by a flamenco magazine where Felipe himself states that the guitars Conde Hermanos Felipe V are made by the 2 brothers + other people working in the shop Calle Felipe V, (they used to be 2 employees btw) and in a different venue in Madrid (under their directions) and also by a different office outside Madrid, (he states) for studio guitars.
He states clearly the guitars are not made by a single luthier but are the fruit of a work team.
As those guitars were actually very good and used by many professional players nobody raised a problem... and frankly I see no problem either.

Solera in recent years grew as a guitar dealer and now his business is becoming predominant in the field.
Truth is that now they dictate their conditions to some luthiers in order to be promoted by them; they want to buy for a very low price promising future success, also abroad.
They are behind the marketing of some guitar makers (the guitar made for Jeronimo Maya for instance or the redwood top guitars or the 2nd epoch of Jesus de Jimenez etc.).
Btw their had their own part also in the commercial growth of Francisco Barba: I spoke with Jordi in 2015 (when the Barbas were sold for 5500 euro) and he told me in some years the price would have been doubled.

The other side of the coin is that somehow they throw down the other guitar makers in different ways.
Simple example: when Javier Castano didn't want to make a special price for them, the description of the second hand Castano guitars was as guitars "non por professionales". Now they are highly praised. Or when they sold some 2nd hand guitars made by Mariano, the description was so and so and they lowered their price a lot (btw they got sold in 2 days).

Now they are promoting their own line of guitars made by Esteve and they do their marketing.
The reason for the recent fight is obvious: Mariano didn't want to collaborate with Solera at their conditions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 10:52:34

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Echi)

yes i saw some days ago that old discuss about Conde , even someone that emailed to Conde regarding a model , and a lady replied to him.

but i was talkin about youtube , how there isnt anyone talkin about this on that plataform?
everything is talked there to the detail... but not this issue (Conde or whatever)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 12:01:59

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Echi)

quote:

As those guitars were actually very good and used by many professional players nobody raised a problem

You imply this happy time was 1993. Well, it was NOT the case when I was in the market in 1997. I got the same opinions we see today…top models, all models, made in Valencia, many were junk, only good ones hand picked by pros have value, etc. Nothing different than the trash talk today. I had been on constant lookout ever since. Joining foros in 2003-4, it was all Conde are garbage trash talk…all hype due to PDL, etc. I was one of few defenders of the instruments online in English.

I was partially leaning to R. Sanchis and sons for a while because of the Atoch discovery, but I gave up on that after many many examples tried. Sanchis cheap guitar compares to Domingo Esteso Montoya guitar I tried (no joke) vs to other lineages. The fact sanchis is a good conde copy is significant, but in the end I could not account for some details. I wanted to discover and buy the “cheap” true conde from Valencia, but I could never find it,ie did not seem to exist. So the possibility remained that conde bros actually built something I owned, and the only way to get it is pay handsomely for it. Finally in 2014 I got some answers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 14:06:26

Echi

Posts: 1132
Joined: Jan. 11 2013

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

You imply this happy time was 1993. Well, it was NOT the case when I was in the market in 1997. I got the same opinions we see today…top models, all models, made in Valencia, many were junk, only good ones hand picked by pros have value, etc. Nothing different than the trash talk today. I had been on constant lookout ever since. Joining foros in 2003-4, it was all Conde are garbage trash talk…all hype due to PDL, etc. I was one of few defenders of the instruments online in English. .

I don't understand your point.
It's undeniable the Conde guitars made in Felipe V are the best among those made in the 3 Conde shops in the years 1989-2011 and it's undeniable many pro-players used to play them.
I for one never particularly liked them and neither Paco and yet those I had in my hands were quality guitars.

You say they are inconsistent? Of course they are. This is due to the fact that different workers are involved, as it could be in Ramirez.
This doesn't entail the guitars are entirely outsourced in Valencia though.
It's perfectly reasonable the option you have some employees and yet to outsource at piece rate to someone else according to your specifics.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 17:49:26

elias

Posts: 37
Joined: Nov. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Echi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi
Solera in recent years grew as a guitar dealer and now his business is becoming predominant in the field.
Truth is that now they dictate their conditions to some luthiers in order to be promoted by them; they want to buy for a very low price promising future success, also abroad.
They are behind the marketing of some guitar makers (the guitar made for Jeronimo Maya for instance or the redwood top guitars or the 2nd epoch of Jesus de Jimenez etc.).
Btw their had their own part also in the commercial growth of Francisco Barba: I spoke with Jordi in 2015 (when the Barbas were sold for 5500 euro) and he told me in some years the price would have been doubled.

The other side of the coin is that somehow they throw down the other guitar makers in different ways.

This is somewhat disappointing. But is there really any better place to buy a flamenco guitar online? And is Solera right to promote some guitar makers (even if they are wrong to downplay others)? Are 2nd epoch Jimenez, Barba, or Francisco Sanchez overrated by any means guitars? They seem very good to excellent to me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 6 2024 23:03:51

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to elias)

Right now theres two Mariano Conde selling on catawiki , you have also rever. and other places , and of course deal directly with the maker or "maker"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 0:14:55

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

Just saw a 5500K Sanchis with media luna , maybe its easy to be mistaken

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 11:04:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

Just saw a 5500K Sanchis with media luna , maybe its easy to be mistaken

Mr. Ricardo sanchis started, in the early 2000’s, constructing TOP of the line hand built guitars with all the trimmings, at $4000. These were specially numbered rare guitars. It is most likely this would be a continuation of that line. I was thinking that THESE were going to be orders of magnitude better than Conde, like Conde on steroids. In the end I tried a couple, and they were not better than my Felipe V, and yet again I was confused why would Sanchis build Felipe V condes (we know he built some for Atocha for sure), and NOT build his own guitar much better????

Again, I have come to the conclusion the Conde bros actually built some A26, A25 during those years. And in 2014 I discovered which hands were the good ones coming from. Nothing has changed since then except the stories about it all (which we see in THIS thread changes day by day). And maybe the drama has ramped up a bit.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 14:39:40

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

now im waiting for Valeriano drama , cant wait for his next video

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 18:05:20

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Mr. Ricardo sanchis started, in the early 2000’s, constructing TOP of the line hand built guitars with all the trimmings, at $4000.

He was a friend of Faustino. When he began his guitars were very good but he was getting old and his sons managed the shop. Their guitars are very good, but not top class. It is obvious that they made many guitars for Conde.

A good Conde is something else: I was once offered one for 4000 euros. It was really impressive, easily on the level of the various Reyes which I had played, but it had a tiro of 700mm. Seems this made it hard to sell: I believe it went for 3000. Somebody has a great guitar at a good price

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 18:35:30

johnguitar

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

700mm!!!!!! Mala bestia!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 19:21:38

elias

Posts: 37
Joined: Nov. 23 2023

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to Manitas de Lata)

For a while I thought I would buy an Atocha Conde blanca because I really do love this sound. Now I'm not so sure because I don't feel like researching into all this drama.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 23:07:13

Manitas de Lata

Posts: 656
Joined: Oct. 9 2018

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to elias)

same Rosete as my future guitar lmfao

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2024 23:27:45

Morante

Posts: 2182
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Mariano Conde (in reply to johnguitar)

All flamenco guitars should be long scale due to the use of the cejilla. My own is 670mm and the Conde seemed longer. No problem. especially if the cejilla is at fret 9.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 8 2024 0:14:09