Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Flammekueche

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 21 2020
 

Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? 

Hi,

I’m looking for a recommendation amongst these three flamenco guitars:

1) Amalio Burguet 1F - 2020
2) Jesus de Jimenez - 2016
3) Amalio Burguet ABF - second hand but very good condition

Price for the last two is higher but let’s park that aside for now. Just interested to hear how the quality / sound compares and if the premium over a Burguet 1F is justified.

Thanks!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 15:45:48
 
rasqeo77

 

Posts: 78
Joined: May 23 2018
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flammekueche

Hi,

I’m looking for a recommendation amongst these three flamenco guitars:

1) Amalio Burguet 1F - 2020
2) Jesus de Jimenez - 2016
3) Amalio Burguet ABF - second hand but very good condition

Price for the last two is higher but let’s park that aside for now. Just interested to hear how the quality / sound compares and if the premium over a Burguet 1F is justified.

Thanks!


Is the Jesus de Jimenez a ‘Segunda Epoca’? If so, it will be in a different league to the Burguets. Jesus is one of the best builders in Spain.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 16:17:50
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2087
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

No doubt this list has credited builders from which to gather information but do you think that there are enough players to visit here who can give information about their playing habits toward making recommendations about different builders' art?

Probably so, but I find questions to be incomplete and rather vague, as to what guitars are the best, when asking about quality, when most of the time, price is not mentioned.

Generally, the builders here show a wide range toward competing with just about any price and quality you could ask for.

I don't find the questions to be unwarranted , as many list members are more than happy to share information, but what I find, is that many of these questions are incomplete, and therefore risk potential of getting no answers.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 16:29:43
 
Flammekueche

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 21 2020
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to rasqeo77

No this is not the “Segunda Epoca” which indicates guitars built post 2017 (apparently there was a step up at that point). This would be a 2016 model, flamenco Blanca which is quite similar to this:
https://www.jesusdejimenez.com/en/cipres/
I’m conscious that quality is a somewhat subjective notion especially above a certain quality benchmark and all these three choices are “good enough” to be loved by someone, just keen to hear what people think of Amalio Burguet 1F (or ABF bearing in mind it’s nearly twice the price so I’d buy it second hand but still c.50% more expensive) as opposed to Jesus de Jimenez and how people would qualify these models (sound, playability).
Also if people have very strong feelings that another model around the €2500 price mark (i.e. same or below) is so much better that these three choices, I’d welcome the input. Maybe Francisco Navarro Concert Flamenco (http://www.francisconavarro.com/concertflamenco.html) or a Camps Primera A (https://www.guitarfromspain.com/en/premium-flamenco-guitars/237-camps-primera-a-flamenco-guitar.html) but I doubt it...
Many thanks for your help!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 19:20:50
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2886
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

is there a reason why you are not trying the guitars yourself?

even if someone else has played guitars by these luthiers it doesn't mean the guitars available to you will be the same.

personally i have tried a number of Burguet guitars and found them all dull, heavy and stiff, so i didn't like the sound or feel of them. But some people like them. It might be a different preference, or they may have played guitars by the same maker with different qualities to the ones I have played.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 20:44:37
 
Flammekueche

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 21 2020
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to mark indigo

Well, the reason I can’t try these exact guitars is that they’re physically in different countries: US for the Jesus de Jimenez and Spain for the Burguet and I’m in the UK. You’re right that it would be easier but if I could compare them back to back then I suppose I wouldn’t need to ask the question and would simply make up my mind.

I happen to own an Amalio Burguet 1A (classical not flamenco) which I absolutely love and my teacher also finds excellent and frankly sounds better than his luthier model at twice the price. Anyway I have found Burguet to be extremely good but as I have no experience of their flamenco guitars and have never tried the Jesus de Jimenez, I thought I’d ask more experienced people on this forum. The Jimenez as a mint second hand is still 50% more expensive that the 1F so I’d like to know if there is a noticeable step up in sound. Which one is richer, more attack, less sustain, more percussive, richer voice, clearer treble?

Has anyone played on both? Alternatively additional opinions of either model are welcome. Thank you for helping me decide!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2020 22:58:00
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1496
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

I have owned a Amalio Burguet 2a, and an Amalio Burguet ABF. Both 20 years ago.
The 2a was heavy to play. The ABF good to play, but it played out very soon. In other words, when I got better in that time and played louder, it was not enough guitar for me. The sound was mediocre. Every hand build guitar I tried later, was better.

Burguet are Valencia fabric like guitars, and as far as I know, the Jesus de Jimenez is hand made.

So probably way better, and for sure way better to re-sell

If your budget is 2500 euro, you can buy a lot. These days. Look for a handbuid second hand one.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2020 9:27:58
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3770
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

While in the market for it I checked out guitars of several brands and luthiers over the course of two weeks. For anniversary matters there was also a whole batch of upper classicals from Ramirez (that were labeled up to over 17000 EUR).

The Burguet 1AB (BR and double back), which I finally chose, blew them out of the water altogether. It was way more lush, rich with overtones, and also much more vibrant, loud and dynamic.

However, his flamencas, ranging from middle class to 1AF, weren´t like what I´d expect from a flamenca. Not light and growling. Rather like classical guitars.

His A range was supposed to be hand built by him personally. Meanwhile I think his kids are engaged in crafting them too.

I know that there have been occasional complains especially in regard of necks and angles. Also the specimen that I own has a slightly warped neck (nut and saddle being not precisely on plane). But the guitar´s general characteristics made me pick it up and shell out the five grands still, inspite of Amalio refusing to grant a price reduction.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2020 10:06:17
 
CA_Sevilla01

 

Posts: 31
Joined: Feb. 11 2017
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

I would go for the Jesus De Jimenez, alll the way. He makes some incredible instruments!! and are all indeed hand made.

Speaking of Jesus De Jimenez guitars....i ran across this video from the Luthiers youtube page and fell in love with this musician. Do you guys know who this man is?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2020 19:53:06
 
yourwhathurts69

 

Posts: 92
Joined: Sep. 16 2009
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

Maybe think of it this way; of the guitars listed, which one are the pros using, and which one will continue to appreciate over time? In my mind, there's only one that meets both criteria.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2020 17:21:27
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2886
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

quote:

I’m in the UK
contact Stephen Eden and have him make you one

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2020 22:12:07
 
Echi

 

Posts: 719
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

I’d second this advice.
Anyway also Jesus of Jimenez is a maker with a strong reputation.
I never compared a new series De Jimenez with his old model though: it can be better or it can be just marketing.
To mention another one, also Jesus Bellido changed rosette, rose his prices and called his new guitars segunda epoca.

Nothing wrong with marketing in itself but there is always a gap from marketing stuff and substance. Better to keep it in mind before buying anything.

Btw I’m aware a well known shop in Spain likes to hype the makers he deals with and indirectly put down the guitars made by the competitors.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2020 9:10:04
 
beltri

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Sep. 28 2006
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

Si tu presupuesto te lo permite, JdJ, es infinitamente mejor opción por ser una guitarra fabricada a mano por un solo luthier de prestigio, selección de maderas de calidad con curación suficiente, acabados a gomalaca etc. Las guitarras de segunda época tienen un precio mayor no por cuestión de marketing sino por otro tipo de cuestiones, como las modificaciones echas en lo relativo a la pulsación, que hacen que tengan un rebote y y una facilidad de toque en ambas manos extraordinaria. Puedes ver videos de Yago Santos o Dani de Morón con guitarras de segunda época. Saludos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2020 12:40:51
 
Echi

 

Posts: 719
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

You say the new Jesus de Jimenez carry structural changes as a different “top stiffness” etc.
I have no reasons to say you are wrong or right. Jesus has a good reputation as I stated.
Just a couple of remarks though.
Top stiffness is very subjective: Some people prefer hard “pulsacion” as myself while other people prefer soft pulsacion.
Jesus himself never said really what these changes are about and sound tests or pictures don’t help to spot any difference.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2020 13:18:45
 
beltri

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Sep. 28 2006
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

Quizas la traduccion no es la mejor, no me refiero a que haya aumentado la rigidez de la estructura. Los cambios mejoran en la manera de tocar, la cuerda aguanta suficientemente una pulsacion fuerte como para hacer sonidos extraños y permite mas acercamiento al mastil, por lo que no es necesario ejercer mucha fuerza para sacar el sonido, por lo que viene bien a una pulsacion mas debil.
El sonido de la primera y segunda epoca, es practicamente identico, ya digo, el cambio mas significativo esta en la pulsacion. Saludos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2020 22:24:01
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 77
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

I have a Burguet 2F negra. So when it was time for an " upgrade" I was set on a 1F or the what is I believe called the Flamencita. In the end, I found the Burguet guitars beautifully build and nice to play and really wanted to like them but for me the sound was disappointing. You pay for the nice build quality was my resume.

But each guitar is different. So the 1F you are eying on could be a gifted with a golden voice. You just do not know until you have played. So either, buy something cheap/decent to start off or take your time and play guitars when the occasion arrises.

I believe the ABF has schellac finish. Something I prefer as it makes (in my inexperienced ear) the guitar more responsive. But it is a pain as it scratches up so easily.

Could you get the Jimenez on trail?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2020 10:45:23
 
Flammekueche

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Feb. 21 2020
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

Thank you for the answers so far, much appreciated! In the meantime the good deal I had found in the US for Jesus de Jimenez has gone away, so I’d be looking at options that are twice as expensive as the Burguet 1F (roughly €4000 compared to €2000). I need to have a think whether I can really stretch my budget this far but it’s not comparing apples to apples. Let’s reformulate the question to whether the Amalio Burguet 1F is a good choice at this price point (around €2k) or whether you’d recommend other white flamenco models:
- Camps Primera A > it seems to get very good reviews
- Vicente Carrillo Alegrias Blanca
- Alhambra 10FC
- another one?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2020 16:11:05
 
rasqeo77

 

Posts: 78
Joined: May 23 2018
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flammekueche

Thank you for the answers so far, much appreciated! In the meantime the good deal I had found in the US for Jesus de Jimenez has gone away, so I’d be looking at options that are twice as expensive as the Burguet 1F (roughly €4000 compared to €2000). I need to have a think whether I can really stretch my budget this far but it’s not comparing apples to apples. Let’s reformulate the question to whether the Amalio Burguet 1F is a good choice at this price point (around €2k) or whether you’d recommend other white flamenco models:
- Camps Primera A > it seems to get very good reviews
- Vicente Carrillo Alegrias Blanca
- Alhambra 10FC
- another one?


In that price range you need to try them first because they will vary greatly in quality. The ones you mention above are basically student models. If I were in your position I would wait until a hand made guitar from a reputable luthier comes up for sale on the second hand market. You can get a professional level instrument this way for not much more than some of the student models cost new.

For reputable luthiers look at what guitars the pros play, look on the websites of Solera Flamenca, Mundo Flamenco, Vintage Guitar World etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2020 16:56:46
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 77
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to rasqeo77

I second rasgeo77's comments.

I bought a 2f negra 3 years ago (that I played in the shop). If I would be in my shoes again, I would just order a starter/student model second hand online for a couple of 100 bucks (cordoba?) and play with the set up and strings a bit to make it work. And in the mean time search for a handbuildguitar you can test and play.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2020 9:59:09
 
Echi

 

Posts: 719
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

Old Sanchis Carpio / Sanchis Lopez / Valeriano Bernal or used/repaired 2nd hand luthier made guitars are quite cheap and you can easily play professionally with them. Many pro-players do it really.
My first good flamenco guitar was a 2nd hand Granada made guitar.

I find all the guitars I mentioned quite better than mass production guitars (like Alhambra, Bernal etc).
Next step (money wise) is to ask a luthier for an hand made guitar and in Spain there are quite a lot of less known luthiers with good prices for flamenco guitars.

Spending a little more my suggestion goes for the luthiers of this forum.
I for one have a weak spot for Andy's guitars but all of them have good reports from foro members.

Going outside, look at the names more quoted in this foro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2020 14:48:54
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2886
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Echi

quote:

Next step (money wise) is to ask a luthier for an hand made guitar..... there are quite a lot of less known luthiers with good prices for flamenco guitars.

Spending a little more my suggestion goes for the luthiers of this forum.


I vote for Stephen Eden

he also makes a "budget" version of his flamenco guitar with same woods and construction (so same play-ability and sound) but minimal decoration for around half the price....

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2020 9:24:16
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2886
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

quote:

Also if people have very strong feelings that another model around the €2500 price mark

the above recommendation is WELL within that budget

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2020 10:23:24
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2886
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Jesus de Jimenez vs Amalio Burguet? (in reply to Flammekueche

quote:

In that price range you need to try them first because they will vary greatly in quality.

quote:

search for a handbuildguitar you can test and play.


further to these wise comments from others, I would add that buying a good (flamenco) guitar is not like buying a new car or phone. All new cars or phones of a certain make and model will be identical. Buying a guitar is more like dating - seriously! You can read the profile online but you actually have to meet to decide if you want to commit!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2020 10:28:40
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

5.859375E-02 secs.