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Mark2

Posts: 1469
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

Sabicas had no compas 

I saw this post on a facebook group today. I think the person who wrote it is a student of he who cannot be named. It's about as ignorant as anything I've ever seen written about flamenco.

Here it is:


btw: I did play a bunch of his music when I was much younger. When I look back on it, it was such a gigantic waist of time FOR ME, but if you like the music and want to play it go for it. My big point in our earlier conversation about Sabicas was this: Learning his music won't help you play Flamenco as it is played today.

Also Sabicas has no compas. Absolutely zero compas. I have 6 year olds with better time. ...and such an obnoxious golpe ...and the music moves exactly nowhere harmonically. Personally, I would classify Sabicas as a sloppy classical guitarist paying Flamenco-ish music. I'd rather listen to a real classical guitarist, but I'm harsh and unforgiving so...

...But seriously somebody buy that guy a metronome!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 0:16:43
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1426
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

People with very strong opinion wants to prove themselve they are right.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 1:11:19
 
FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 847
Joined: Dec. 7 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

I highly doubt it, but there is a slight chance he posted that to show allegiance to his guru. Maybe he still hasn't saved up 12000€ for the guitar and has to preach the Word to keep being part of the cult.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 1:24:23
 
rombsix

Posts: 6890
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

quote:

I highly doubt it, but there is a slight chance he posted that to show allegiance to his guru. Maybe he still hasn't saved up 12000€ for the guitar and has to preach the Word to keep being part of the cult.




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 4:07:12
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1550
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

This post is so ridiculous that I’m more inclined to take it for a troll: you know, the kind that posts outrageous statements just to get a rise out of the old hands.

Either way, it’s not worth dignifying with a reply.

Ignoramuses can certainly do damage on Wikipedia, however — the page on Manitas de Plata is a case in point. If you want a good laugh, take a look at the Talk page, the section headed Esteem by aficionados of flamenco.

Oh, and the following section, Rhythm.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 7:40:50
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1426
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

quote:

posted that to show allegiance to his guru.



Do not speak the name that is not to be mentioned....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 10:16:13

Piwin

Posts: 2183
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

The tiny kernel of truth in all that is that it does seem, at least to me, that playing cuadrado is more important to contemporary players than it was for their predecessors. Influence of baile perhaps?

But yeah, that's just me trying to be overly charitable. It really was a load of BS. Accompanying seguiriyas must be hell for him if he defines compas by the metronome.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 11:10:32
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

Sabicas was the most in-demand and well-respected tocaor of his generation. Whether or not you think his music has aged well (obviously most would say it has), he was a huge part of the foundation on which modern flamenco was built. He influenced every guitarist who came after him. Does his music have the harmonic or rhythmic complexity of PdL's? Of course not, because no one did until PdL came along.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 12:57:14
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

this dude sounds like he can play the guitar with telekinesis only... how can one be so full of himself 🙄 sabicas is one of, if not THE most important flamenco guitarist of the modern age. his malagueña made me start learning flamenco. even in some of PdL's falsetas you can hear sabicas' influence. somebody who talks like this clearly has no respect for the art and probably will never be a proper guitarist... 😑

and I find it funny that we can say LORD VOLDEMORT in this foro but not "his" name... 😂 what facebook group is this if I may ask?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 14:49:39
 
Arash

Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

edit: whatever, waste of time

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 16:02:20
 
Escribano

Posts: 5870
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

That is how "he who cannot be named" writes. The ellipses give him away.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 16:31:40
 
JohnWalshGuitar

Posts: 475
Joined: Aug. 10 2009
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Arash

Hahahahahhaha. Why are you guys wasting time giving counters to this fella's argument?
Best thing to do is go on whatever group that was in on Facebook and find the commentator, then check out how he plays.
You can be sure it is not to any great level because the vast majority of great musicians understand how difficult it is and have a high degree of both empathy and humility, not this boorish grandstanding.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 16:48:30
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWalshGuitar

the vast majority of great musicians understand how difficult it is and have a high degree of both empathy and humility, not this boorish grandstanding.


This is so true!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 17:10:15
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Andy Culpepper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Culpepper

Does his music have the harmonic or rhythmic complexity of PdL's? Of course not, because no one did until PdL came along.


Of course, you are right.

Seeking new ways of expression is a great thing. Expanding musical vocabulary is an obvious way to grow as an artist.

The danger, however , is to blur everything out and to dilute too much.

Flamenco is the kind of music that deals with powerful experiences, with greatest joy, human drama and terrible grief. In its purest form it is passed to the listener/spectator with brutal clarity. Nothing is prettified, just the pure concentrated essence of the subject. This is what I picked up on as a child, that flamenco spoke the truth, it never lied.

What I am seeing today among many contemporary artists, is that they took the harmonic and rhythmic expansion to such unprecedented heights, that it kills the meaning of the message. This is very unfortunate, because there is a lot of work and years of study behind such proficiency, and it is very difficult to compose with such a level of detail. But at some point this complexity over-saturates the music and becomes its main feature.

It is like language. Imagine that you have an amazing vocabulary and use it in every single sentence, giving preference to those synonyms of simple words that are most rarely used. Now construct long, complex sentences to better showcase your ability. To my ears, a lot of modern flamenco guitar is approaching this point.

Now imagine you are at the deathbed of a beloved one (let's hope not!). Will you finally part with your style of speaking to say the last words to him/her?

I am not against complexity if it adds to the meaning, but a better balance must be found.

Just my opinion.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 18:20:27
 
rasqeo77

 

Posts: 24
Joined: May 23 2018
 

RE: Sabicas had no compa (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWalshGuitar

Hahahahahhaha. Why are you guys wasting time giving counters to this fella's argument?
Best thing to do is go on whatever group that was in on Facebook and find the commentator, then check out how he plays.
You can be sure it is not to any great level because the vast majority of great musicians understand how difficult it is and have a high degree of both empathy and humility, not this boorish grandstanding.


I just did that. There’s a video of him playing live. Now I’m not one for criticising other players and it takes balls to play live but dear oh dear...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 18:35:39

Piwin

Posts: 2183
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Grisha

As I indulge in sünnipäevanädalalõpupeopärastlõunaväsimus, such a statuesque asseveration compels me to articulate my own assent to this utterance of a gentleman whose tremendous artistic capability can only be matched by his prodigious sensitivity, which he has so exquisitely divulged in the rightful proclamation above, under which my own agreement can only serve as a modest corroboration upon which I surmise all members present can reach similar accord as to demonstrate some well-advised Freundschaftsbezeugung, behind which resides our deepest appreciativeness for having inculcated multitudinous insights into knowledge most harmonious, never precipitevolissimevolmente, to us your musical lessers, provided there’s pizza.


Sorry, I couldn't resist

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 19:01:30
 
JohnWalshGuitar

Posts: 475
Joined: Aug. 10 2009
 

RE: Sabicas had no compa (in reply to rasqeo77

rasqueo77, I haven't checked myself but it doesn't surprise me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 19:11:36
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Piwin

Thank you, Piwin, for the demonstration! What palo was it?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 19:30:32

Piwin

Posts: 2183
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Grisha

I call it pizzadangos por solea. Grab your metronomes everybody, it's gonna be huge!

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 19:57:52
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1550
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

quote:

I think the person who wrote it is a student of he who cannot be named.


Hmm. When I search for “he who cannot be named”, I get no hits whatever.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 20:25:19
 
Mark2

Posts: 1469
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Escribano

That is very interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

That is how "he who cannot be named" writes. The ellipses give him away.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 21:01:39
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2811
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Grisha

quote:

What I am seeing today among many contemporary artists, is that they took the harmonic and rhythmic expansion to such unprecedented heights, that it kills the meaning of the message. This is very unfortunate, because there is a lot of work and years of study behind such proficiency, and it is very difficult to compose with such a level of detail. But at some point this complexity over-saturates the music and becomes its main feature.



Very true! That's probably why I tend to stick to the traditional stuff frankly.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 10 2019 22:04:00
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2602
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Grisha

Thank you, Grisha. I agree wholeheartedly.

I listen with admiration and pleasure to many of the modern players, but for me it is most often a different experience than making the acquaintance with Sabicas or Niño Ricardo. The technically and harmonically simple accompaniment of Melchor de Marchena conveys more passion to me than a whole album of some of the more recent players.

Sabicas was not universally admired by contemporary aficionados. In 1962 I was at the club Zambra in New York City. Near closing time Sabicas showed up for the after hours juerga. I enthused about him to the middle aged Spaniard sitting next to us.

“I would rather hear Fernando Sirvent (the house guitarist),” he said.

“Why is that?”

“Sabicas plays too many notes. He’s just showing off.”

I made sure we were allowed to stay after closing time. Sabicas accompanied singers and dancers very simply and tastefully, and readily yielded to other guitarists. He played a couple of solos when strongly encouraged, but showed no sign of fatigue until the sun came up.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 0:13:47
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2826
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

quote:

Also Sabicas has no compas. Absolutely zero compas. I have 6 year olds with better time. ...and such an obnoxious golpe ...and the music moves exactly nowhere harmonically. Personally, I would classify Sabicas as a sloppy classical guitarist paying Flamenco-ish music. I'd rather listen to a real classical guitarist, but I'm harsh and unforgiving so...


This jerk describes himself as "harsh and unforgiving," which is supposed to convey expertise in the genre. Instead, he has revealed himself to be self-absorbed and ignorant, as most blowhards are. He clearly doesn't know what he doesn't know and therefore thinks he knows everything. Just one more ignorant blowhard adding his voice to that of all the other blowhards in this world.

Bill

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With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 15:20:37
 
RobF

Posts: 254
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

He clearly doesn't know what he doesn't know and therefore thinks he knows everything


Maybe his name is Dunning Kruger.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 15:31:27

Piwin

Posts: 2183
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to RobF

Freddy Dunning Krueger, the blowhard you don't want to see pop up in your dreams.

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 15:34:00
 
RobF

Posts: 254
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Piwin

Kind of like a malevolent Cliff Claven.

“Interesting little article here. It says that, uh… the average human being only uses 17 percent of his brain. Boy, you realize what that means? We don’t use a full, uh… sixty-four percent.”
- Cliff Claven
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 15:52:44
 
Mark2

Posts: 1469
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Sorry to leave you hanging-I don't want to step on Simon's toes but suffice to say that the individual in question was banned from the foro. He seemed to think that PdL was God, and he is Moses. That he has devoted followers is, well, the way of the world.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

I think the person who wrote it is a student of he who cannot be named.


Hmm. When I search for “he who cannot be named”, I get no hits whatever.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 17:25:36

Piwin

Posts: 2183
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to RobF

quote:

a malevolent Cliff Claven


Oh that's brilliant!

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 19:53:39
 
JasonM

Posts: 915
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Sabicas had no compas (in reply to Mark2

Come judgement day, he shall get his. He will meet PdL face to face. And PdL shall call upon his by name - the name that no one speaks. Ane when he turns in delite to face Paco, he will be sucker punched in gut by Camaron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2019 19:53:40
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