Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Grisha's finger rasgueos   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

Grisha's finger rasgueos 

Sup amigos, how are you doing? Just Yesterday i watched this



And i was just wondering, i hear a lot of Grisha's music and i've always wanted to know what is up with his finger rasgueos, it sounds like a damn abanico (he even replace some stuff Paco used to do with abanico with finger rasgueo) or something, it's so powerful and percussive, and it even seems (in the video, for example) that he is using free fingers rasgueos (!). Like, what is going on?? hahahah.

Can anyone give any thoughts? Maybe Grisha himself
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 13:01:21
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1244
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

Hello, thanks for your kind words. I am not sure what you are asking specifically. Can you please elaborate?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 13:41:20
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Grisha

Sure, i thank you for your work, i always love to see your new videos on Youtube, you're killing it! My question is: how do you get such a percussive and full sound doing finger rasgueo? It is different from most contemporary guitarrists i know, especially the full sound part, most rasgueos i'm familiar with (mine included) just don't have that full sound (kinda hard to explain it, i just feel you hit every single string in the guitar homogeneously with incredible preciseness!). I noticed that you always keep the thumb on sixth string, and i'm not sure if you do the finger rasgueo with free fingers or with flicked fingers... Can you clarify your technique?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 14:36:55
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1244
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

Do you have a specific pattern you are interested in, or do you mean strumming technique in general?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 15:20:59
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1244
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

I will make a video about this.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 17:50:41
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Grisha

I mean the mechanics, the strumming technique in general, i'm guessing there's no big technique difference between your amii pattern and your aia pattern (please correct me if i'm wrong), for example. And i'm just asking because i can't figure out how you produce your finger rasgueo sound. A video would be amazing!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 17:59:02
 
JasonM

Posts: 1275
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

I know what you mean about Grisha’s atack with amii... I think besides being very metronomic, it’s kind of his own unique sound that might be hard to copy unless you have Grisha’s fingers and nails. But I’m curious to see what Grisha has to say
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2018 18:52:40
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to JasonM

Yes, kinda hard to put on words, but you got it. I'm also super curious!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2018 13:05:33
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1244
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

I am sorry for the delay in making the explanation video. For the past couple of days it got pretty cold here, and humidity inside the house is way down. I don't have all my recording equipment in the humidified room where I keep my guitar and practice.

I found an unlisted video on my YouTube channel where I play some of those rasgueados (I don't remember for the life of me what prompted me to record it). Maybe it can help for now?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 16 2018 13:57:25
 
jg7238

 

Posts: 2825
Joined: May 11 2009
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Grisha

Frankly this is difficult.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 16 2018 16:39:11
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Grisha

Thanks, Grisha! First, i am surprised you do 4 fingers rasgueo, never noticed it before , second, i still haven't figured out if you flick all of your fingers doing the rasgueos, i'm guessing is kinda a middle way between free and flicked fingers (?). Anyway, thanks for the video, it is very illustrative.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 16 2018 16:42:58
 
Fred Klinge

 

Posts: 100
Joined: Aug. 1 2013
From: Abita Springs, Louisiana

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

Grisha,

Thanks so much for the video post - this is helpful. I'm about a year into my flamenco playing and my instructor has highly recommended I utilize the Juan Serrano four finger rasqueado, i-s-a-m. When I started on my own, I was totally relying on a-m-i-i. Looks as if your technique is more in line with Juan Serrano approach. I find the i-s-a-m more even and with more even power/volume. I still use the the a-m-i-i method at times and I continue to work on exercises to improve my finger independence.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 16 2018 18:33:42
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1402
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

quote:

it even seems (in the video, for example) that he is using free fingers rasgueos


I think he is using THREE-finger rasgueados where you may have expected 4-finger rasgueados. When the rasgueado is started with the ring finger it is stronger than when started with the little finger.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2018 2:41:27
 
Piwin

Posts: 2734
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Grisha

If "flick" means that thing where you curl your fingers up and press against the thumb to build up energy and release them from there, I'd say no, he doesn't seem to be doing that in either of these videos.

_____________________________

El modo de dar una vez en el clavo es dar cien veces en la herradura.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2018 4:38:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11777
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Fred Klinge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred Klinge

Grisha,

Thanks so much for the video post - this is helpful. I'm about a year into my flamenco playing and my instructor has highly recommended I utilize the Juan Serrano four finger rasqueado, i-s-a-m. When I started on my own, I was totally relying on a-m-i-i. Looks as if your technique is more in line with Juan Serrano approach. I find the i-s-a-m more even and with more even power/volume. I still use the the a-m-i-i method at times and I continue to work on exercises to improve my finger independence.


When I was first learning I tried to develop all the types of rasgueado and use them at specific times. The juan Serrano thing was hard because of the coordinations of the return of fingers with no up stroke. A similar triplet version exists as well. However I quickly discovered that some of these things that students focus a lot of time on (namely marote abanico, Serrano 4 stroke, etc) were not so common and actually very personalized. It took years to develop the more typical and imo important patterns such as starting on the off beat triplet
a-i/p-a-i/p-a-i etc, or
a-i/iup-a-i/iup-a-i etc ... and now the most important one for me is
iup-a-m-i/iup-a-m-i/iup etc. not sure why method books under play these super important details, but I can always tell when someone plays rasgueado if they have learned from a method book or developed them with a pro from Spain, or sitting in their bed room, whatever.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2018 13:38:55
 
JasonM

Posts: 1275
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Ricardo

I’ve never encountered i(up) iami. Juan Martin never taught me this (he is the real deal from Spain). Starting on the beat or “a” or both?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2018 14:35:44
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Piwin

I'm guessing that as well, but i am not so certain cuz it has a very well-marked and percussive sound (which is more prominent and common in "flicked" rasgueos) while at the same time it hasn't the typical punch (that usually outlines 2-3 strings) flicked rasgueos have. An homogeneous, percussive and full sound... it's like the best of both worlds, haha
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2018 16:18:35
 
callemunicion

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Jun. 5 2017
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko


Here is a nice video
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 19 2018 18:15:26
 
kitarist

Posts: 858
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloko

I'm guessing that as well, but i am not so certain cuz it has a very well-marked and percussive sound (which is more prominent and common in "flicked" rasgueos) while at the same time it hasn't the typical punch (that usually outlines 2-3 strings) flicked rasgueos have. An homogeneous, percussive and full sound... it's like the best of both worlds, haha


I agree that Grisha's rasgeos sound amazing. I just have some comments on the way you interpret what you see (and hear):

1. If by "flicked" you mean pre-tensioned against the thumb (would it kill you to confirm or deny this - Piwin asked you too ), then Grisha does not seem to have that setup, but the sound derived is just as percussive and sharp/tight. I was thinking of how could that be. It means he is able to generate the same acceleration of his fingers from rest without pre-tensioning, so that by the time the fingers hit the strings, they are moving with similar speed. This seems to make sense - so if you hand is strong and controlled enough, it is possible to do.

2. I don't think your determination that Grisha is hitting all strings (and equally) is correct. Of course the sound is great, but if you look at the video he posted above (continuous rasgeos) from the beginning, you can see and hear the high-E is typically not hit in the downstrokes(*), and is typically hit on the upstrokes(**) - just like you would expect. It would be a mistake, I think, to aim to hit all strings, and equally, with every stroke, up or down. The sound would not be right.

(*) and his thumb is on the fifth string, so only 4 strings to possibly hit. I imagine if the thumb was anchored on low-E, you might even not see even 2nd (b) hit very often. It all depends on the effect sought, of course - but it is all on purpose, with control.

(**) especially clear as he starts his slow amii demo at around 0:22 in the video.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 19 2018 20:27:07
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to kitarist

Hey, kitarist, yes, that is what i mean by "flicked", sorry my delay answering you and Piwin.

quote:

2. I don't think your determination that Grisha is hitting all strings (and equally) is correct. Of course the sound is great, but if you look at the video he posted above (continuous rasgeos) from the beginning, you can see and hear the high-E is typically not hit in the downstrokes(*), and is typically hit on the upstrokes(**) - just like you would expect. It would be a mistake, I think, to aim to hit all strings, and equally, with every stroke, up or down. The sound would not be right.


Sorry, it was a kind of an hyperbole what i said, i didn't mean it literally, i was trying to capture the feeling into words. I meant his rasgueo has such a full sound (of course he doesn't hits every string, haha), and does not have that "punch" i mentioned earlier. About the thumb, here you can see he's doing rasgueos hitting the high E with his thumb resting on the sixth string (quite atypical):

And in the video i first posted here (Malaguena) he even does it without resting his thumb in any string (by the and of the video).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 19 2018 21:43:12
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11777
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

quote:

About the thumb, here you can see he's doing rasgueos hitting the high E with his thumb resting on the sixth string (quite atypical):


A simple generalization....when the thumb bends only the up stroke catches the first string, also some flicking going on...when thumb is straight the A string will not get hit, and probably no flicking going on.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 2:51:48
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Ricardo

I just pointed it out, of course i am not implying he hits all the strings (or else)... I just mentioned it as to show some atypical (not inexistent or never heard of) features of Grisha's rasgueo. By the way, i guess i figured out how he is producing his sound, it is not flicked, but it is not only free fingers. I guess i'll make a video as soon as i get used to the technique (so far i am just used to do flicked rasgueos so i need practice, but this new technique sounds hot!).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 11:46:07
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

As promised, a video update: https://streamable.com/1ss5a

Please let me have your feedback, my nails are crap right now so my apologies right away.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2018 22:05:19
 
kitarist

Posts: 858
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloko

As promised, a video update: https://streamable.com/1ss5a

Please let me have your feedback, my nails are crap right now so my apologies right away.


It doesn't load for me. EDIT: On a laptop with Firefox.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2018 22:45:46
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to kitarist

That's odd, are you watching it from your mobile? Here it is working just fine... I'll try to upload it on youtube then.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2018 22:54:57
 
kitarist

Posts: 858
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloko

That's odd, are you watching it from your mobile? Here it is working just fine... I'll try to upload it on youtube then.


Never mind - it is fine now! It was just me.

First impressions from a quick look: Don't know how to describe it, but what you call 'free-finger' rasgeos (the second demo) look odd to me. It is like you are going out of your way to only do them from the second joint and tip joint, not the knuckle (MCP) joint. Also, I may be wrong but your flicks (the first demo) are actually more like Grisha's rasgeos, in that you are not really tensioning all your fingers against a bent thumb like you show when you show it away from the guitar before that. Your thumb stays relatively straight.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 0:11:03
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to kitarist

Yes, my free finger rasgueo is kinda odd because of my nail, since it has broken it hooks in the string so i end up having to play the rasgueo very lightly. That nail problem i didn't have so much with the other two rasgueos. The flicked rasgueo i played was done with ami pressed against the thumb, the grisha's way i am trying to figure out was played only with a slightly pressure of the thumb againts the index finger, just so i can have enough friction to develop a punch and percussive sound, but not so much or else i would end up having a dry and not so full sound like the flicked one.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 0:39:11
 
Moloko

 

Posts: 63
Joined: Sep. 19 2015
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

It is pretty messed up, but i rather make a video now than wait months to have my nails back, haha.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 0:46:47
 
Goldwinghai

Posts: 184
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Moloko

Wonderful performance of Sabicas Farruca by Grisha. Does anyone know if this piece has been transcribed and available in book? I love Farruca and would like to learn this one. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 15:24:19
 
kitarist

Posts: 858
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Grisha's finger rasgueos (in reply to Goldwinghai

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goldwinghai

Wonderful performance of Sabicas Farruca by Grisha. Does anyone know if this piece has been transcribed and available in book? I love Farruca and would like to learn this one. Thanks.


It is called "Con salero y garbo". Several transcriptions are floating around the intertubes.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 18:33:44
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.