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New disco de Vicente in October
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Erik van Goch
Posts: 1789
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
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 RE: New disco de Vicente in October (in reply to JasonM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
So essentially he was sort of incubated with Dutchmen in Córdoba before going on to Manolo Sanlucar's school I assume...
Let us know what you thought of the performance.
I have no idea when Sanlucar came into his life but i guess both events probably happened around the same period of time. All i know for sure is that Vicente basically had no place to study (and that study material might very well have involved things he learned from Manolo) until he met his future friends Ad, Ruud and Egbert who lived in Cordoba at the time (early 80-ties) to study the art of Flamenco and were more than happy to offer this promising youngster their friendship, the key of their house and even that wonderful Gerundino.
In a 1983 radio interview Vicente mentioned that his father only agreed picking up the guitar on condition he would find himself a proper teacher. So he went to a local music school that could only offer him a classical guitar teacher who obviously had no clue what to do with someone like Vicente. I guess around 1981 both Sanlucar and his Dutch friends came into his life. Obviously one learns from everyone who is able/willing to show you a thing or two so it's fair to assume both Vicente and his new found friends benefitted from that situation. Ruud Stoop (1 of them) tells in his biography that he settled in Cordoba in the early 80ties to study at El Conservatorio Superior de Música with Manuel Cano as wel as La academie de Merengue de Córdoba y Concha Calero to master the art of accompanying singing and dancing. In 1985 he returned to the Netherlands to study at Rotterdam Conservatorium.
When i met Vicente in 1983 (he joined his friends visiting the Netherlands) i didn't know that many flamenco guitarists yet. Manuel Cano (4 tracks), Juan Matin (the famous method that seemed to have inspired my whole generation), Sabicas (playing scardaz and another song in duet with Paco), Manitas de Plata (not my cup of tea), Paco Peña and Paco de Lucia pretty much sums it up. Also i had seen a couple of flamenco dance shows (da Silva's Fiësta Gitana) but my focus was still very much guitar related. I had no clue what happened in Spain. Don't forget the www did not exist yet. All we had over here were records and flamenco records were pretty hard to get. On top many fabulous records were yet to be made, Tomatito hadn't recorded a solo album yet, nor did Nuñez, Riqueni and many others. My knowledge at that period of time basically was restricted to the complete repertoire of Paco Peña and some records of Paco de Lucia (the ones i was able to find).
Vicente's 1983 "stage" repertoire as i know it existed of:
Bulerias (the one in the video, as i know now it embeds a lot of Tomatito material)
Soleares (as i know now clearly showing the influence of Manolo Sanlucar)
Tarantas (including a lovely fandangos theme i haven't identified yet)
Granainas
Entre dos aguas
some fragments of Rondeñas (Paco de Lucia)
At the time i earplayed both the soleares, the tarantas and the granainas. In the late 80ties/early 90ties i got hold of a concert he gave in Spain, very impressive material and basically the stuff that shortly afterwards made his first record. It was nice to see how over time his original variations were replaced by better ones until he decided it was time to make a record. A lovely free introduction to his alegrias that was part of his repertoire around the time he made his first record never made it to the record. I have a lovely street record were he is jamming with some friends and plays the fairly unknown intro to invite others to join in Alegrias but no one seemed to notice that open invitation. So a couple of minutes later he tries it again....and again....and again until finally the others join in (a bit like that rare super-8 film were a still unknown Charlie Chaplin makes his first public street appearance in front of a mass audience and is totally ignored while 1 year later thousands would show up just to see him). From his 1983 repertoire only parts of parts ended up on his record, mainly because at the time his toques were constructed from material he learned from his teachers, records and videos. Over time i was able to trace some of it down to it's source like that epic video of Tomatito (playing that bulerias with his pulgar de plata) or old records of Paco de Lucia accompanying singers using variations that were not included in his solo records. I still wonder were Vicente found himself the lovely fandangos theme he included in his childhood tarantas, traces of which can be found in his later compositions as wel as mine.
this is how it started
II
----------------/2---------2-------------5~/0--3>/-2--0------2-/2--2~/*-2~/*2/3~2/0--
------2-/3--5------3---------/3---------3------3>--2-------------3--3~---3~-------------3
--/4-------------------/4--------4-------0------0------------------4--4~--(4)--------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------/4--4~/-(4)---------------
----------------/2-------------------------------------------/2--------------------------------
--------------------------------------/0-------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------0---/0---0~/*-0~/*-0----------------/2----------
/2--------2--------------/2~0------------(0)---0--0~----0~-----------2-/3--5-------------
----0--------/0-----------0----/3~0------(3)--3---3~---(3)-------/4--------------etc------
------/3---------3--------3---------------------5---5~----------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------/4---4~---------------------------/2-----------
---------------------/3----------------/2-------------------------------------------------------
As far as last night concert is concerned, over time Vicente choose paths that are not my cup of tea anymore and my hope this "back to the roods" performance would restore my interest unfortunately did not pay off for me (bad luck for me since obviously he is a hell of a player). He started with a couple of toques from his first record, pieces i happen to love very much but this time in stead of the fabulous stage sound that was his trademark in the days i still visited his concerts it sounded like the amplifier used a snare drum in overdrive. Although there was indeed a huge drumset on stage i don't think the problem came from that source. So (unlike the old days) i seriously hated the stage sound which apart from a snare drum effect seemed to involve some kind of artificial sound "improvement" a kind of synthesizer that somehow "enriched" the sound. But don't let it hold you from visiting the show because no one else seemed to notice and like them you most probably have a great night out.
The line up was as usual and the concert hall seemed more filled with people then the floor plan of available/sold seats suggested (the theater wisely did not check seat numbers so people of the 5th class balconies were free to occupy the lower seats if they wanted, suggesting a more filled theatre).
_____________________________
The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 27 2016 16:31:17
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Thomas K
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar. 27 2013
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RE: New disco de Vicente in October (in reply to Erik van Goch)
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Hi Erik,
I saw Vicente and su grupo perform in Munich a few days before the Amsterdam date. I'd not seen him before, always found the CDs (save for one of the very early ones) over-produced and slick, so I was looking forward to perhaps hearing a more puro version of his music.
When he came out on his own I, too, noticed the odd sound that you describe as "snare drum in overdrive". In theory, it could have been the (unused, at that point) loose snare drum resonating, but I think it was just a bad choice of reverb! The Prinzregententheater in Munich has great acoustics, it really doesn't need any gimmicks, and I'm no fan of excessive reverb anyway. My thoughts were, "Oh dear, this is going to be challenging."
Thankfully, when he was joined by the band, the reverb was either drowned out or deliberately reduced by the engineer. I also felt he and the band took some time to warm up, but when they were in full swing during the second third of the show it was elating, really nice musicianship. They lost a bit of momentum toward the end, but all in all I was very impressed. If the new album is more puro and along the lines of what I saw I'm all for it.
Thomas
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 9 2016 19:22:59
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