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RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Siulnarom59)
quote:
Could you tell me which years are the good ones for the Conde’s guitars..
As already said trying the guitar in person is always recommended, all other advice can be helpful in a general way but not accurate to every individual guitar.
You said you are new to flamenco, it takes time and experience to know what you personally look for in a guitar. So maybe get a cheap yamaha to learn first, otherwise you may buy an expensive guitar that you later come to realise doesn't suit you.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to orsonw)
I dont focus on aesthetics such as rosettes, headstock design, etc. I dont worry about action too much either, but i do look to see if theres room for adjustment ( neck angle, saddle and bridge height) if its not where i want it, if i like the rest of the guitar.
i like the point raised about checking volume up the neck, i agree thats a good test. i also like a good dynamic range, something that stays true to itself and clear whether loud or soft. I check to see how it responds with rasgueados, those have to be crisp and articulate and immediate.
tone wise, i veer towards the dry metallic end of things, but i need good basses too, strong but not round. the real tone test for me is the midrange - i love that old school, hollow metallic bark! Harmonics have to be clear and easily produced as well, i use them a fair amount.
Interesting discussion re Condes. i had one for a while--probably my favorite tone, but the intonation was way off around the 1oth fret. no amount of saddle or nut adjustment could dial it in.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to orsonw)
Thanks to everyone for sharing some of your expertise and knowledge with me. However, as I stated in my original question “I am knew to the flamenco family” and even though I do not care about labels or names; I do care about quality, playability and price. In my learning about flamenco guitars I found a disparity in the prices of some good/outstanding guitars (i.e., Conde’s) and wanted to know why? Also, if someone could provide me with their experience (good or bad) about the three guitars I’m looking into buy (Conde, (Felipe V) AF25 1998; Vicente Carrillo, Pasion Flamenco Negra 2013; and the Jeronimo Maya and Vasillis Lazarides, Flamenco Especial Blanca/Negra 2014). There are outstanding guitars and I wanted info about them, unfortunately everyone concentrated their advice on the Condes. Thank you once more for your advice. Respectfully L Moran
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Siulnarom59)
I don't usually get into these threads as the price you are looking for is greatly less than what I build, but to advise you to try out any specific guitar before you buy it, would be the best solution for you. Anything less would be folly, imho.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Siulnarom59)
When I talk to constructor friends who know flamenco about the ideal guitar, we agree without any disagreement that it should be cypress, spruce and pegs. 655mm de tiro. French polished and easy to play with room to adjust.
They all understand the concept of distance at the 12th fret, distance between tapa y cuerdas and angulo at the bridge.
Jeroónimo Pérez will make me one, agreed in 2 minutes in a family reunion
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Morante)
quote:
When I talk to constructor friends who know flamenco about the ideal guitar, we agree without any disagreement that it should be cypress, spruce and pegs. 655mm de tiro. French polished and easy to play with room to adjust.
This is awesome that you and the other constructors know this and I agree, but the majority of the guitar playing public is still behind the 8 ball.
The real sticking point is the pegs, I have noticed that people have become afraid of pegs.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Guest)
quote:
I find it actually quite entertaining how some players and luthiers in this forum rage against the poor Condes - the former because they can't afford one and the latter because they can't build like them.
Do yourself a favor and google "youtube yago santos vallecas" and listen to what a good Conde guitar sounds like if you haven't already. Build me one that sounds nearly as good and then we can talk. If you can't, then I'm sorry but the market is right to demand Conde sound. one of the silliest attributions that I see made in this forum again and again is that somehow players don't know what good sound is and are easily cheated to go after the famous Conde label although their guitars are somehow bad. What nonsense! 99% of the players I know don't care a darn about what it says on the label but do very much care about things such as sound and playability
Backing nothing but "Conde'" sound is like monoculture farming.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to orsonw)
Pegs can be a little frustrating if you play in public. My Lopez Bellido was peg headed and while I loved the guitar and found this feature attractive I ended up by converting the headstock to a conventional slotted one. I feel much secure now. I put a high grade Alessi on it (btw weighting just 135 grams) and noticed no difference in the sound.
I didn't like the Condes for 20 years (for specific reasons) and preferred the guitars made in Andalucia. I begun changing my mind after having played carefully a guitar made by Arcangel Fernandez and later a Barbero Copy made by René Baarslag. Something changed since then. Nowadays I apprefiate more certain stiff top flamenco guitars and Conde and Sanchis with them.
Jerónimo Pérez seems to be the guy of the moment. Can someone explain me what's special in his guitars? I'm quite allergic to fashion and in recent years I noticed a lot of it in the criteria some famous players choose their guitars. As an instance, for years I listened people complaining about the Condes made in the 80ies while now they seem to be the holy graal. I like them too (now) but obviously either there was something wrong in the previous assessment or it's a matter of fashion.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to Echi)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Echi
Jerónimo Pérez seems to be the guy of the moment. Can someone explain me what's special in his guitars? I'm quite allergic to fashion and in recent years I noticed a lot of it in the criteria some famous players choose their guitars.
I've played a Perez negra, it was a decent guitar but have heard and played much better from several other builders. The setup was nice and fast so that's a plus. The build quality was also a bit questionable. The fretwork wasn't great, there were file marks all over the fretboard, and the headstock wasn't completely symmetrical and a bit shoddy. Alot of players don't really care about build quality so that's just a personal thing as I am super picky about it. Based on all the attention this guy has received I expected more. It was one of his earlier guitars so it's possible they have improved. His prices are still low though so maybe that's why they are popular.
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to orsonw)
I'm not suggesting they are bad guitars at all. I'd like just to know what are the things which make them the name of the moment (other than the low price and good quality). There was a moment when others were in the same position (at some stages Pedro de Miguel, Jose Rodriguez, Jesus the Gimenez, the Sanchis etc). It seems to me that the ratio sound quality/low price is a good element: as soon as you raise the price someone else arises in that market range. Anyway my question is how these guitars sound like, to make them special?
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to orsonw)
What I look for in a flamenco guitar is the the cat. Sometimes she gets in there when the strings are off.
I hate it too, because she gets that long cat hair gets in there and it gets stuck on the glue blocks. Then the cat meows really loud because she gets stuck.
So I always look for the cat in a flamenco guitar. Damned curious cat.
Posts: 1696
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: What do you look for in a flamen... (in reply to estebanana)
One of my cats just likes to be with me when I'm practicing. He gave up trying to sit on my lap or the guitar, which I strongly discouraged. But nowadays he likes to lie on the foot that I am tapping the beat with, if I'll let him.
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