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RE: Favourite songs palo by palo   You are logged in as Guest
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bbfifas

 

Posts: 28
Joined: Sep. 29 2016
From: Vero Beach, FL

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to tele

Vicente Amigo - Callejon de la Luna
One of the first ones I listened to of Vicente's and always go back and listen to it.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2022 13:24:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13331
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

But for asturiana, Cruces Roldán writes, "Aflamencó la forma musical de la asturiana como una impresión insólita en la historia de flamenco...¨


I like how the melody is in minor key and the guitar plays major chords. . This is exactly the reason cantaores invented Palo seco, cantes sin guitarra.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2022 13:54:43
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I like how the melody is in minor key and the guitar plays major chords.

Damn, I really have to intensify my ear training.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2022 20:46:51
 
tf10music

 

Posts: 105
Joined: Jan. 3 2017
 

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I like how the melody is in minor key and the guitar plays major chords. . This is exactly the reason cantaores invented Palo seco, cantes sin guitarra.


I think all of that is very purposeful, actually. The way she resolves her singing over the chord backing really does mimic the tonada asturiana (and in particular that song, "Cuando salí de Cabrales"), only she inserts notes and articulations from flamenco scales into her runs. It can't have been easy to bring that celtic sound into a flamenco space. I think the guitar actually helps to push the vocals more toward flamenco, because it responds to those aflamencao elements of the singing in such a way that they become recognizable.

I don't have anywhere near as educated an ear as you, but as someone who has lived in the north of Spain and has heard plenty of that Cantabrian/Asturian celtic music, the fusion happening in la Niña de los Peines' version was immediately recognizable and clearly involved the interaction between the guitar and the vocals. I don't have the technical musical knowledge to break down what's happening with precision, though. It might have something to do with relative keys? Or maybe I'm just way off base.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 3:29:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13331
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to tf10music

quote:

ORIGINAL: tf10music

quote:

I like how the melody is in minor key and the guitar plays major chords. . This is exactly the reason cantaores invented Palo seco, cantes sin guitarra.


I think all of that is very purposeful, actually. The way she resolves her singing over the chord backing really does mimic the tonada asturiana (and in particular that song, "Cuando salí de Cabrales"), only she inserts notes and articulations from flamenco scales into her runs. It can't have been easy to bring that celtic sound into a flamenco space. I think the guitar actually helps to push the vocals more toward flamenco, because it responds to those aflamencao elements of the singing in such a way that they become recognizable.

I don't have anywhere near as educated an ear as you, but as someone who has lived in the north of Spain and has heard plenty of that Cantabrian/Asturian celtic music, the fusion happening in la Niña de los Peines' version was immediately recognizable and clearly involved the interaction between the guitar and the vocals. I don't have the technical musical knowledge to break down what's happening with precision, though. It might have something to do with relative keys? Or maybe I'm just way off base.


So based on this version:


It is all major scale (if in c major, white keys only), with two small exceptions. The solo in the beginning uses Bb (C mixolydian sound), but settles back on basic major. Then the singer leads in with E-F#-G, or a Lydian sound. But later reverts to normal major scale for all the rest. The vibrato suggests Ab at times, but I don’t think it is deliberate (F melodic minor sound). There is a lot of emphasis on F at times…but there are NO CHORDS anyway. In this case I actually would use Major chords like N. Ricardo was doing, and perhaps that was what he was thinking…but honestly Pastora (and the other version Devil hand shows) they are not singing the major scale. There is a lot of Eb (relatively speaking) going on, and an occasional Db. (Listening back N. Ricardo actually touches on minor with some little melodic notes in between phrases, so he was certainly aware of what was going on).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 11:29:37
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3218
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Favourite songs palo by palo (in reply to Ricardo

Niño Ricardo's intro is in the major mode. In her first line Pastora adds some flamenco notes to the Celtic scale of the original, working up to a flatted 7th and back down to the tonic. After that Niño Ricardo alternates his interludes between major and minor mode.

There is an interesting dissonance between voice and guitar. If we're talking C-major, a couple of times Pastora sings below E on a long note, but not quite all the way down to E-flat. Niño Ricardo plays E natural. It would be dissonant either way, probably more dissonant the way they do it.

Niño Ricardo does play a chord, only once, and very softly: C-minor.

I think he's really playing in A major/minor with the cejilla on the 4th fret, going by the sound of open strings. That is, it sounds C# major/minor, fingered as A would be, if playing without cejilla..

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2022 4:59:27
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