RE: "Luthiers share your creations" thread

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Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to estebanana)

My hat is off to you, then. That is some mighty fine work there. ( Aside of Stephen being right about the plantilla too.)

I tried Norman´s very kindly provided programm too. However, it seems one needs to have comprehended rosette making first in order to wrap one´s head around the programm.

While playing around with eventual rosette designs, besides, I discovered how effects can be gained even just with rough squares, if only there is an estimation for realistic proportions.

See in this example the dancer as she moves from right to left you also see her naturally somewhat turning laterally ( away from you).
Innit funny? :O)

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2014 14:56:18

estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Computer modeling rosettes has limits and at some point the technical facility leads the project into diminishing returns.

Too much detail; You can make an image of George Bush Sr. and Mickey Mouse drinking tequila while playing beach volleyball with buxom women. But it will look good to Grateful Dead followers high on bad acid in the parking lot of stadium. On a Spanish guitar not so much.

The devil is in the details- too much of the wrong kind of detail just becomes intricate and does not speak visually.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2014 23:20:22

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

I think to know what you mean, but just for the record, the figures were created manually square by square.

What rosette making is concerned, I agree with you. One needs to gather some experience first to see which proportions may do.

That said, I think the above could had worked out as easily visible.
That is at least how it looks on the sketch.

Ruphus

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2014 8:43:28

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Just completed this negra (which is available, by the way). My most recent customer, for the blanca I posted last, just called to say it is perfect in every way and that I should increase my prices. Hmm....

This may be my favorite rosette.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 17:42:39

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thats a beautiful guitar and I like the Rosette a lot too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 17:45:35

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Nice looking guitar Ethan. Is that Pao Ferro?

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 18:01:05

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

Is that Pao Ferro?

Thanks guys.

John--I think Pao Ferro is one of the names for it. I have been calling it Bolivian rosewood. I got it from your recommended place, Akustikwood, and they call it "Santos Rosewood (Morado - Santos Palisander), botanical name Machaerium scleroxylon." Now I can't remember why I called it Bolivian rosewood.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 19:26:50

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

My most recent customer, for the blanca I posted last, just called to say it is perfect in every way and that I should increase my prices. Hmm....

This they always do when they have payed.

Very beautifull rosette and lots of nice details. The flatsawn pau ferro, I´m not so fond of, But besides that its a classy looking guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 21:34:59

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

This they always do when they have payed.

Maybe not all of us

Your pricing is just fine on those masterpieces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 21:43:21

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Yes, I was thinking I should have countered with, "tips gladly accepted." But I'm not planning to raise my prices any time soon.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2014 23:41:41

El Polaco

Posts: 155
Joined: Sep. 29 2005
From: Singer Island - Florida

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Beautiful guitar Ethan! Love the geometric rosette too! Excellent work!

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Jorge

Guitarras Artesanas Españolas
www.jorgedezofia.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2014 0:20:12

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

quote:

This they always do when they have payed.

Maybe not all of us Your pricing is just fine on those masterpieces.

The logic of this reply seems not clear to me.
The first sentence should logically mean that you did unlike mentioned beforehand, hence you adviced a price raise before having paid. ( Correct?)
Whereas, the second sentence seems to indicate that there was no raise due.
-

Ethan,

Great rosette!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2014 9:46:34

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

here´s #117 rosette. Blodwood, ebony and black ebony. with rally stripes from Madinter.
It should be available soon. Its a 2A Cedar top, med.cypress blanca.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2014 11:05:53

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Impressive!

I don't how you do it. Fitting a square design into a circular pattern is quiet a balancing act. It is hard enough just drawing it on a sheet of paper and making it look right. But to cut wood pieces into a mosaic pattern and come out symmetrical is quiet a piece of work.

Anders, your artistic skills are put to good use on your masterpieces. They are a work of art!

-Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 17 2014 13:50:57

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Some great work being posted here. Ethan, your guitars are looking great lately. How is that Santos Rosewood tonally? I've been thinking about ordering some. I don't love that it's flatsawn but I have used flatsawn Brazilian...

Here's me playing a little tangos on a new instrument:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2014 21:04:42

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deteresa1

Some great work being posted here. Ethan, your guitars are looking great lately. How is that Santos Rosewood tonally?

I have a Pau Ferro negra. I'd say tonally it's like a rosewood but without the overtones, which IMO makes it a great tonewood for flamenco. The trebles aren't as bright though, and the basses don't have as much sustain.

The downside is that it's on the heavy side of things and is supposed to be nasty for allergies for luthiers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 18 2014 21:12:13

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

How is that Santos Rosewood tonally?

Isnt it so that a piece of wood in order to be Rosewood should have Dalbergia as its first Latin name?

In South and Central America they call whatever brownish wood for rosewood in order to sell it.

More info here: (they call it Pau Ferro)
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/pau-ferro/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2014 19:08:02

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

Just completed this negra (which is available, by the way). My most recent customer, for the blanca I posted last, just called to say it is perfect in every way and that I should increase my prices. Hmm....

Drooling over pictures is quite a different thing than getting a chance to test drive. It was a pleasure to spend a few minutes with your Blanca in Sanlucar last summer, excellent instrument.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2014 22:41:23

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

#116 is a 2A euro spruce top blanca with back and sides of Canadian Cypress.
There are more pictures and a video in the classifieds section and on my blog.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2014 21:44:15

timoteo

Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

What is Canadian cypress? Do you mean Chamaecyparis nootkatensis? Commonly called yellow cedar around here. It's a beautiful wood, and a beautiful tree.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 27 2014 22:28:08

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Chamaecyparis nootkatensis

Yes, thats it. Another tree with confusing and misleading popular names.

Chamaecyparis nootkatensis is not a cypress and absolutely not a cedar. Its actually in the Thuya family. Has been in the cypress family and there is still some disputes about where it should be.

I´ve built around 8 - 10 guitars with this wood. Both 1A and 2A guitars and I really like the sound. I even like the smell of it which is quite peculiar. The guitar which I built for Simon in the "El guitarrero" documentary is with CDN cypress.

This one is the last one with CDN cypress. I wont build more. Import has become to expensive and I can get Mediterranean cypres for the same price and thats what most clients want.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 7:24:02

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

This one is the last one with CDN cypress. I wont build more. Import has become to expensive and I can get Mediterranean cypres for the same price and thats what most clients want.

Here's the Spruce/Canadian Cypress blanca

Cedar/Cypress blanca

They both sound great.

I really like cedar soundboards on blancas. Kind of perplexed they are not that popular.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 10:34:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to tijeretamiel)

quote:

I really like cedar soundboards on blancas. Kind of perplexed they are not that popular.

I like them to and that 117 guitar really plays well. The problem is that people "think" they dont like cedar. They have read it on the internet, so when they try a guitar with a cedar top, they already believe they wont like it.
Another problem is that many builders dont control cedar to well on flamenco guitars. Often they end up being to soft and muddy or they have to much of that "cedar ring" in its voice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 11:49:26

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

So here you have the pictures of the 2A cedartop blanca. Video above.

#117 is a 2A blanca with western red cedar soundboard and mediterranean cypress backs and sides. Scale is 650mm and nut is 52mm. The guitar is French polished. There are a few more photos and a video on my blog and in the classifieds section.
Taste is very personal, but I personally think this one is very pretty.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 11:56:16

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I like them to and that 117 guitar really plays well. The problem is that people "think" they dont like cedar. They have read it on the internet, so when they try a guitar with a cedar top, they already believe they wont like it.
Another problem is that many builders dont control cedar to well on flamenco guitars. Often they end up being to soft and muddy or they have to much of that "cedar ring" in its voice.

I've heard cedar is more difficult to build with, not just for the practical reasons (easy to ding while building).

Of the traditional respected names in flamenco luthiery, some of my favourites in terms of sound are the old cedar Ramirez blancas.

Your guitar 117 looks very nice, I'd love to try in in the flesh.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 28 2014 17:27:32

Joan Maher

Posts: 213
Joined: Dec. 3 2013

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

117 looks amazing Anders a really beautiful looking instrument...

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Gracias!

Joan Josep Maher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2014 8:49:50

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

Thanks both of you.
I dont think cedar is more complicated to build with. You just have to deal with it on its own premisses. When I final thickness a soundboard, I´m not so interested in the thickness. Much more in the flexibility and weight.
When doing this and the other (spruce top) soundboard, I ended up with around 125 grams prior to soundhole cutting and the spruce was at 2,1mm while the cedar was at 2,5mm. Thats actually pretty thin for cedar, but its a very high grade cedar top. I dont have inferior grades of cedar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2014 16:14:00

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

That Cedar one really sounds good man.
Muy Flamenco.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2014 16:33:29

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

No. 117 is very beautiful.

The sound/video clip is very enjoyable too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2014 19:47:19

estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Luthiers share your creati... (in reply to Ruphus)

My latest Port Orford Blanca and probably the last. I built through twenty sets of it and it's all gone.

Well I've been told by an expert on the Foro I can't build or play the guitar so you'll have to suffer though my chicken scratches and cat pawing of chords. Maybe some day I'll learn, in the mean time I'll just send them to those who can play.