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tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents 

Hello,

obviously in flamenco it is important to learn emphasizing downbeats of the compas. I was wondering what kind of basic ways are there? Strumming harder? Change of chords? what else?

Maybe it's not possible to emphasize every downbeat and maybe it wouldn't even sound interesting...

I am very interested to learn this information of flamenco guitars essence so to speak. Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 19:11:18
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

obviously in flamenco it is important to learn emphasizing downbeats of the compas.


Not sure I agree with this. That is what the golpe is for, to emphasise certain beats in the compás, unless I misunderstand.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 19:58:15
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Escribano

Well maybe I have misunderstood, but aren't most of chord changes and strongly played notes centered around the downbeats especially in the 12 beat cycle, meaning emphasizing of the downbeats? (Golpe too being one way of emphasizing). Or maybe I need my views on this matter checked.
Basically I guess my questions can be answered by explaining the guitar playing in relation to the downbeats in case I'm wrong about the emphasizing matter. thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 20:15:58
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

Can you talk in terms of fingers e.g. a triplet in one beat i ↑ a ↓ i ↓ or a p ↓ in one beat? It's not like strumming a steel string so to me, downbeat doesn't really mean anything.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 20:22:48
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Escribano

I tought downbeat was a common term for accent in compas?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 20:39:07
 
Escribano

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From: England, living in Italy

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

I tought downbeat was a common term for accent in compas?


'Downbeat' sounds like a downward stroke on the beat to me, and there can be many strokes on the beat (up and down) e.g. a-m-i-i-i across two beats

A single, downward stroke as an accent i.e. with golpe is most often played with i and by the nature of the technique, usually involves a downstroke. Having said all that, I am no teacher

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 20:46:01
 
Erik van Goch

 

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

With downbeats i hope you mean main and/or melodic accents (which may or may not fallow the internal compas structures you learned so far). Golpe is indeed an option but is in essence just percussion that can be used for everything you want, including emphasizing accents. The options you mentioned yourself (strumming harder/chance chords) also fit the picture.

There are also more subtle methods like "adding"extra"notes. If you stroke the E chord 12 times in a row in Soleares you can ad both a golpe AND a lower e on the main beats

..............>...............>.........>.........>.........>
--0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---------
--0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---0---------
--1---1---1---1---1---1---1---1---1---1---1---1---------
--2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---------
--2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2----------
--x---x---0----x---x---0---x---0----x---0---x---0---------

In case of x you mute the string with your right hand thump, in case of 0 you don't.

In bulerias you do the same on the opposite side by avoiding e´ on beat 1 and 2 and/or playing it extra hard on beat 3.

--x---x---0------
--1---1---1------
--1---1---1------
--1---1---1-------
--0---0---0-------
--x---x---x--------

In the same way you can ad bas/top notes in the melody. The most important thing however is to know the compas by heart.....even if the (main) beat is covered in "silence", everybody knowledgable enough to understand the music will feel the beat/accent nevertheless.

If you are seriously in learning flamenco finding a good teacher can save you a lot of trouble :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 20:57:30
 
Erik van Goch

 

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From: Netherlands

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Well maybe I have misunderstood, but aren't most of chord changes and strongly played notes centered around the downbeats especially in the 12 beat cycle, meaning emphasizing of the downbeats? (Golpe too being one way of emphasizing). Or maybe I need my views on this matter checked.
Basically I guess my questions can be answered by explaining the guitar playing in relation to the downbeats in case I'm wrong about the emphasizing matter. thanks



Your idea about downbeats (or accents as i use to call them) is basically correct :-)

All melodic/rhythmic events are linked to center points in the compas (one way or the other), if not in phrasing/accents than still by the fact the compas is simply there.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 21:04:57
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Erik van Goch

Thanks again.

Basically I have the idea that flamenco is pretty much "all about" the compas and to learn flamenco guitar one is required to make the accents of the compas to be heard more or less in the playing. So more tips on methods to achieve this emphasizing are very welcome
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 21:11:11
 
Erik van Goch

 

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From: Netherlands

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

Compas is everything and should indeed guide every aspect of your playing (even the so called free pieces are very structural, not by a compas than at least in the way the chosen melodies should be phrased). The best overall advise is to study the masters and on top to find yourself a good teacher, there is simply to much to know/tell ;-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 19 2012 21:14:33
 
mark indigo

 

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Escribano

quote:

I tought downbeat was a common term for accent in compas?

'Downbeat' sounds like a downward stroke on the beat to me


I'm not sure if it can be used in more than one way, or if people here are using it to mean different things.... so i looked it up

"Downbeat, the first beat of a measure in music. This term originated from orchestral conducting, where the lowest point on the baton signals the first downbeat in a given measure. It is now used widely throughout music to also indicate the beginning of a piece of music." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downbeat


"The downbeat is the impulse that occurs at the beginning of a bar in measured music.[3] Its name is derived from the downward stroke of the director or conductor's baton on the first beat of each measure. It frequently carries the strongest accent of the rhythmic cycle. However, in some cases, the downbeat may not be emphasized. Such departure from the normal stress pattern of a measure is a form of syncopation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upbeat#Upbeat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2012 10:01:47
 
El Kiko

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to mark indigo

downbeats down really work in flamenco ..per se....
it is best to think of them as accents and these may change depending on what you
playing , , As mentioned I would think of them as accents as often they do not occur at the beginning of the bar anyway .....

So although you still have your 1..3..6..8..10. accents they will occur . like this eg

Solea ......1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8....9....10...11...12.....rep

Bulerias is the same but you might start on beat 12 , so as solea get the golpe on the third beat , bulerias may get it on the forth ,,although you still call it 3 ..... because you started 1 beat earlier ....like this ......


12...1...2....3...4...5...6...7...8....9....10...11..rep

and some may get it on beat 7 instead of 6 ....

12...1...2....3...4...5...6...7...8....9....10...11..rep

so try playing eg......the A major chord and with a hammer on / pull off Bb , on the third string ...but make the golpes hit those
12..3..6..8..10....beats


.........I think the one thing you have to know is when things start and stop ,,,, like phrasing ...which often end on beat 10 <Bulerias) , or things that start on beat 3 ( Alegrias ) etc etc....


Maybe i should make a sound file to illustrate what I mean here ....anyway ...have a look here at this site its not too big and has basic info on getting the rhythms in place .

Go here then click on "Flamenco Forms " and choose one ,,,.. I hope this helps ....

http://www.studioflamenco.com/index.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2012 18:20:37
 
Erik van Goch

 

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents (in reply to tele

On top of the ones i mentioned there are numerous other ways emphasize notes. If Paco Peña wants a certain note to stand out over a longer period of time he plays that note softer (not harder) since a soft note has a longer life span. Subtle left hand vibration can give a (dying) note a real energy bust as well.

The contribution of the right hand is much more subtle than just applying dynamics. Arpeggio for instance in general is played tirando (fingers ending in the air) but you can lighten up selective arpeggio notes by playing them apoyando (finger ending on the neighboring string). Often this apoyando is combined with an added base note as well. Obviously you can use this trick in other situations as well

An other trick is stealing time from the surrounding notes. I guess everyone is familiar with the card-trick were someone flips a stack of cards in front of your eyes and has no trouble to name the secret card you had in mind. One way to match them is to make sure the right cart finds it's way to the viewers mind. A simple way to achieve this is to cut a corner of 1 of the cards. As a result the next cart is visible twice as long during the flipping as all the other cards, to short to be noticed but often long enough to trigger the mind.

You can do the same on your guitar. A musical phrase can be played straight forwards, but you can also chose to give the important notes a little more time by arriving a little sooner and/or to leaving a little later. Obviously this time has to be cached up by stealing it from the surrounding notes. I apply this in numerous situations. Sometimes thinking a long note (rather than play one) can mean a difference as well.

And like i stated before, everybody understanding the music (both musicians and public) will feel the corresponding accents , even when it is a silent beat: in soleares beat 12 is often restricted to a golpe and in fandangos the main beat is often felt only inside as well ,with major (chord chance) developments located around (but often not on top of) the main accent. A series of notes ending on an accent is felt as an accent in the same way.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2012 23:00:51
 
dararith

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From: Oakland, CA

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

downbeats down really work in flamenco ..per se....
it is best to think of them as accents and these may change depending on what you
playing , , As mentioned I would think of them as accents as often they do not occur at the beginning of the bar anyway .....


I agree with Kiko entirely here.

To emphasize an accent (or downbeat, as you call it -- confusing, since downbeat means a down stroke to me ... and in the non-flamenco world, downbeat is the heavy accent...not so true in flamenco), you can either:

1) Play it louder with finger(s) that can give you more strength (am fingers, m, or p)
2) Add a golpe WITH step 1
3) Do a golpe with no strumming
4) Rasgueados that finishes on the accent you want
5) Strum a different chord or add a different note on the accent
6) Play certain phrases louder -- you can do a build up from quiet to loud.
7) Play NOTHING at all for the accent -- (this works especially well if you play everything up until the accent loud and everything after the accent loud)
8) Conversely, play ANYTHING at the accent, but with nothing around it for a few beats or so.
9) ... ... ... etc, the list goes on.

Bear in mind that an accent can be played loud, but it doesn't have to be. It's simply something that distinctly sounds different from the 'main' phrasing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 3:44:35
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to dararith

Thanks everybody for the answers so far I really am getting a better picture together about how flamenco guitar "works"

quote:

Bear in mind that an accent can be played loud, but it doesn't have to be. It's simply something that distinctly sounds different from the 'main' phrasing.


I like this simple approach.

Is there situations in flamenco when the compas accents are sort of ignored and everything is played equally, just like with a metronome? Maybe I am not a sharp listener but sometimes when I listen even to traditional flamenco I cant hear the accents in the guitar, but thats maybe because Im a beginner.


Here's one solea that shows how emphasizing the accents isn't too straightforward, and I would appreciate more tips on learning about "compas relation to the guitar".


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 11:22:41
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents (in reply to tele

Can't see video sorry. In almost all cases
The downbeats of 12 beat cycle are 12 and 6.
That goes for bulerias solea and Alegrias at tempos say
120bpm +. For very slow solea as per baile
and including escobillas of Alegrias and silencio
Falsetas, slower Bpm of 50 to 100 ish, the downbeats
Are 1,4,7,10.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 15:41:30
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents (in reply to Ricardo

I must admit that I should have said "compas accents" instead of downbeats as that's what I am asking about and I was thinking they both mean the same thing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 17:31:48
 
Ricardo

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents (in reply to tele

You can accent anything in compas ... Indeed
Often counter beats and off beats are important
To accentuate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 20:04:05
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats/accents (in reply to Ricardo

Here I found a nice video to help me with my question:
http://guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1247

Basically showing the importance of 3rd and 10th beat which was new to me.

quote:

You can accent anything in compas ... Indeed
Often counter beats and off beats are important
To accentuate


Can you tell what does off beat and counter beat mean?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 21 2012 20:21:22
 
dararith

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

Here's one solea that shows how emphasizing the accents isn't too straightforward, and I would appreciate more tips on learning about "compas relation to the guitar".


Diego del Morao's Ganaina?? Yes...it's very beautiful. He plays with the rhythm a lot and may not even accent on where you think the accents are for a solea...but it grooves with the compas...there's no rule.

Try doing palmas with it, if you hadn't already. See if you can hold the compas WHILE listening to his music. You'll hear how he plays with the rhythm in accent before the expected accents to give it more emphasis, and the melodic phrasing even hints at it too (although Diego takes this a step further and go against the expected at times). I think people play this way since they already have compas security and don't want to limit themselves to the standard accents. Diego is exceptional at this.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 5:21:10
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to dararith

thanks again. It is I suppose very "freestyle" on how one relates the playing to the compas, but I suppose it still is different as playing with a metronome, even when some bars might not accent the compas at all?

Also, when I listen palmas on the background of famous guitarists I am having hard time to hear the usual accents. Is there maybe some good site to help me to understand the accents in palmas(and maybe to learn some variations of the compas in case there are some)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 14:19:00
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

thanks again. It is I suppose very "freestyle" on how one relates the playing to the compas, but I suppose it still is different as playing with a metronome, even when some bars might not accent the compas at all?

Also, when I listen palmas on the background of famous guitarists I am having hard time to hear the usual accents. Is there maybe some good site to help me to understand the accents in palmas(and maybe to learn some variations of the compas in case there are some)


freestyle? Not at all. You can't just do whatever random rhythm or counter time synchopation. In order for it to be tasteful and good, you need a base to build from as a composer so your "new" ideas rhythmically speaking have meaning. Perhaps the difference is not noticeable to laymen or newcomers to the art, but that doesn't mean it's not important. Indeed, it's ALL about that as you advance. You need understand how flamenco evolved. Many people say modern flamenco is jazzy....I tend to disagree in favor of the more clear internal evolution that has had with the rhythm. By that I mean take a form, such as solea, go back to ramon montoya and follow the steps through time how trends changed. Paco de lucia is important to study regarding this because of his massive recording catologue the evolution becomes clear by simply lining up his tracks of solea and buleria por solea by date.

THe secret to learning after developing your ear for the parameters of what is tasteful with compas, is to play for baile. In that environment, the rhythmic vocabulary is learned sort of like drum rudiments. Important phrases that become natural over time and doing new off set timing variations of those rudiments is done in very small steps. As one advances you start to catch on to what guys like Diego are doing that turns out being quite sophisticated but hardly random or freestyle as it might sound relative to the old traditional base.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 15:50:56
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Ricardo

Ricardo, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I could use then couple more tips on the relation of guitar to the compas

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 17:04:46
 
Ricardo

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Ricardo, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I could use then couple more tips on the relation of guitar to the compas


With any music style you need to learn to identify the downbeat and always keep it centered. (ironically what you asked originally even though you didn't maybe understand what a downbeat is.).

Here is an important topic, read through entirely. AFter you get centered no matter how crazy the subdivision of the beat is, it is easy to feel the time and get a grip on where you are in the compas.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=199729&p=4&tmode=1&smode=1

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 18:12:13
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Ricardo

quote:


Here is an important topic, read through entirely. AFter you get centered no matter how crazy the subdivision of the beat is, it is easy to feel the time and get a grip on where you are in the compas.


Thanks, I don't actually have trouble with tangos and other 4 beat compas, but I am having hard time with 12 beat compas and learning how to relate guitar to it properly and also with centering. On the guitarsalon site though I found a good tip to ground oneself to 3rd and 10th beat, does anyone else do this?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 18:21:02
 
Ricardo

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

quote:


Here is an important topic, read through entirely. AFter you get centered no matter how crazy the subdivision of the beat is, it is easy to feel the time and get a grip on where you are in the compas.


Thanks, I don't actually have trouble with tangos and other 4 beat compas, but I am having hard time with 12 beat compas and learning how to relate guitar to it properly and also with centering. On the guitarsalon site though I found a good tip to ground oneself to 3rd and 10th beat, does anyone else do this?

THat's not right. The grounding and center weight for 12 counts, as I stated above, are 12 and 6. 3 or 4, 9 or 10, are the answer points or the tail end of the compas. (UNLESS YOU HAVE A VERY SLOW COMPAS also as stated) the chordal strums there are expressions of answering or finalizing a phrase. In tangos dancers count to 8 and the answer phrase equivalent of 10 is count 7. Dancers tend to start counting from 7 for this reason in class (siete ocho nueve diez un DOS!) and for tangos start counting from 5 (5,6,7,8).

The head beats are 12 or 6, sometimes accented, often just felt and played OFF of starting on 1 or 7, the tail ends are 3 or 9 with rasgueado or harmonic changes typically.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 23 2012 22:30:49
 
tele

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RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

The grounding and center weight for 12 counts, as I stated above, are 12 and 6. 3 or 4, 9 or 10, are the answer points or the tail end of the compas. (UNLESS YOU HAVE A VERY SLOW COMPAS also as stated) the chordal strums there are expressions of answering or finalizing a phrase.


Thanks again. Can you please elaborate what means answering a phrase?
And if one finalizes a phrase on 3 or 4, does one just wait until the next compas cycle before playing anything else?

Does 3,4,9 and 10 answer/finalizing points work in every 12 beat compas?

This kind of information is really helpful and I suppose very essential(surprisingly I haven't bumped into it online before), thank you.

Basically I started this thread to understand how to work with compas in a real flamenco manner. So far this thread has helped me alot, thanks everybody.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2012 10:53:26
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

quote:

The grounding and center weight for 12 counts, as I stated above, are 12 and 6. 3 or 4, 9 or 10, are the answer points or the tail end of the compas. (UNLESS YOU HAVE A VERY SLOW COMPAS also as stated) the chordal strums there are expressions of answering or finalizing a phrase.


Thanks again. Can you please elaborate what means answering a phrase?
And if one finalizes a phrase on 3 or 4, does one just wait until the next compas cycle before playing anything else?

Does 3,4,9 and 10 answer/finalizing points work in every 12 beat compas?

This kind of information is really helpful and I suppose very essential(even when I haven't bumped into it online before), thank you.

Both when accompanying cante and playing falsetas, the idea is sort of question and answer. To harmonize for a flamenco singer we answer the melody with the chord change, rather than have the two occur simultaneously. Depending on where in time the melody stops and gives the clue to the guitar which chord to play, you either answer on 3 or 10. Counts 4 or 9 actually reveal if you want to imply or make a half compas phrase (relative to the 'normal" 3 or 10 beat feelings). IN this manner the singer can improvise and the guitar accompanist follows with not a pre concieved concept of a chord chart (as in jazz or pop music where the chart IS the song structure. IN flamenco we can make up the chart on the fly as per the melodic wims of the singer). In some forms doing a half compas is acceptable but not so common (exception is buleria where it is quite common to discard or add 6 beats to answer a phrase).

It is an interest and unique thing about flamenco rhythm. I would say that no ALL 12 beat song forms are like this. Guajira for example has same rhythmic phrasing, but harmonically the guitar sticks to keeping chord changes on the down beats (12 or 6), but it's a fine line since the underlying feeling is similar so sometimes say alegrias ideas creep in.

Regarding guitar solos, melodic phrasing tends to be symmetrical in the sense we most often end a melodic phrase on 6 (down beat) or 10 (tail end of compas). THis allows a square feeling such that a melody ending on 6 gets rounded off by some interesting rasgueado or other type of phrase (remate) which nicely answers the melody. Other melodic phrases that end on 10 are thought to already include the remate within the notes themselves such that the full idea is complete and no "answer" is needed. THe new cycle begins afterwards on the downbeat of 12. In the case of buleria mainly (although this happens in some guitar solos of alegria in minor key and solea too ie slow compas) it is acceptable to do half compases. So if a phrase ends on 4 of a cycle, it is taken to feel as 10 and the next 6 becomes 12 of a new cycle. Conversly if a melodic phrases ends on count 12 in buleria, it begs for a remate or resolution answer that need not be longer than counts 1->4 and again that is taken as count 10 as a half compas. IN the case of very long melodic passages, there need not be any remates (ending on 4 or 10) so a constant phrasing in 3 or 6 is expressed (12 and 6 are most important and the feeling of 10 say, is played through or perhaps 9 is accented instead). There are in fact complete guitar solos that make very little use of remates or even rasgueado strumming, and often refered to these days as "vals buleria". They tend to have a "spanish classical" vibe too.
There are sequential type phrases too where a chord could put on the head beats (12 and 6) and the melody leads to next chord hit. Other phrases via pick up notes might lead into down beats and chords are done as answers (on 3 and 9 for example). and after all the beats I have avoided talking about can be deliberately expressed in similar fashion, to answer a melody of pick up notes that lead the down beats. (Tomatito famous bass line falseta that starts on 10 going to D minor in 5th position on count 12 and the chord answers on 2, then next phrase begins 4 leads to 6 with C chord answer on 8 etc on down Bb-A).

It is important to understand that the number system is not followed like a math rule. We talk about these details after the fact, the truth is the phrases need to be simply felt and most players would not even know what beat they land on other than intuition as "oh I am on the downbeat and I need to rematar...". Other times half compases are very deliberate such as the way Manuel Morao accompanies bulerias with a forced half compas remate everytime. It is not counted per say or even thought of in numbers, but it is not random.

I will finally add that you will also encounter, very rarely, odd phrases of 3 too, where not even a full half compas is made. Again do to the fact there is no counting just feeling of phrases. THis would be considered a mistake to most professionals however because it forces the palmeros to adjust their internal down beats.... but it's been done.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2012 13:44:11
 
tele

Posts: 1462
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks alot that's alot of good info.

Are the down beats 6 and 12 in every 12 beat compas or is it 1 and 6 in solea, for example?

quote:

It is important to understand that the number system is not followed like a math rule. We talk about these details after the fact, the truth is the phrases need to be simply felt and most players would not even know what beat they land on other than intuition as "oh I am on the downbeat and I need to rematar...". Other times half compases are very deliberate such as the way Manuel Morao accompanies bulerias with a forced half compas remate everytime. It is not counted per say or even thought of in numbers, but it is not random.


I like the idea of feeling the phrases. This however for a flamenco beginner like me is rather difficult at least for now with 12 beat compas. In tangos I can already play properly, and even improvise as it is easy for me to keep track of the 1st / silent beat in the 4 beat cycle. Are the beats 1 and 6 the ones I should keep track of in solea and 12 and 6 in bulerias?

what would be a good method to learn to feel the phrases(if there is any)? Thanks

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2012 15:10:46
 
Escribano

Posts: 6334
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Emphasizing compas downbeats (in reply to tele

quote:

In tangos I can already play properly, and even improvise as it is easy for me to keep track of the 1st / silent beat in the 4 beat cycle.


It might help if you could post an audio or video?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 24 2012 16:59:12
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