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This was said about 8 - 9 years ago...and I thought it was so good and well articulated that I saved it on a text file so I would never forget it (i dont do that very rarely but I do do it sometimes when something you read is so good that you wanna be able to recall it)...this was more useful than any tab book or any instructional book.....they all speak to what do with your fingers but not how to think and how to asses yourself....with this kind of mentality and discipline you can do the most basic exercises on open strings all day and still achieve good results.....so imo its not what you do with your fingers its whats going on in your head as you doing it....most of the exercise takes place in your head.
Came across today when I was looking for something ...so before I move on and forget to post it...here it is for those that might have missed the original ...( or maybe he said it to me in messenger, I cant remember)
You know when you sometimes get a piece of advice that changes your whole outlook on things and ultimately you as a player...this might have been one of those moments for me....hope it does the same to some..thought it was worth bringing up again.
" The most important thing in practice is practicing right. Which means with correct hands position, good (and full) sound and NO TENSION. If you feel discomfort - stop. Try to find out where it happens. Than ask yourself why. Listen to your playing very carefully, as if transcribing a piece from recording. Don't let one note pass unheared. Let your ear guide you as much as your hands (or more). It takes a lot of concentration, but once you start doing it regularly, you won't want to turn back. This way you not only train your muscles but also your mind. This way you set your aims high.
The second most important thing is the variety of material in your practice. Do you spend 2 hours practicing scales with the metronome, or do you work on arpeggio, tremolo, shifts, stretches, slurs, rasgueado, your thumb and scales with the metronome? I would go for the second. And then, if you have time, play more of scales or whatever.
Ahh, almost forgot! You have to practice your repertoire SLOWLY. Divide it equally among several days (depending on how large it is), and play one part each day. Don't forget the dynamics, tone, timing and everything that you do at normal tempo. If you think this is boring, play this game: imagine that you are in incredible shape and are, in fact, playing very fast, but your mind is so powerful, that you perceive everything slow. And now that's your chance to get everything perfectly."
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to rombsix)
I was just about to do that after you said it...but audios aren't supported in this thread..
try playing this as you reading it
EDIT:
actually bad idea playing this while trying to read that...I already forgot what that guy from Russia said and my name, and where my fingers for exercises are and anything to do with anything......yeah yeah yeah whatever... practice with mind or something i got it....go away
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
I couldn't have expressed the general idea behind practicing any better than this. It is totally in line with what i learned at Rotterdam University of Music (Paco Pena, Hans van Goch, Ricardo Mendeville) and with everything i value after studying the art of studying myself to what you could call "molecular level".
I could not have hoped for a better title and introduction to drop some of my own wisdoms about the subject, wisdoms that have proved to be very effective over the years.......
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
I could not have hoped for a better title and introduction to drop some of my own wisdoms about the subject, wisdoms that have proved to be very effective over the years
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
Nice post Florian. I practice exactly like Grisha describes in your initial post and it works perfectly. Except I don´t practice any exercises. I practice all techniques with repertoire and everything slowly with metronome. In the end I speed it up to half then 3/4 then full speed of the particular composition.
Posts: 15854
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
I only add that statement "practice makes perminant"...rather than 'perfect". So When Grisha says practice CORRECTLY....that becomes super important as there are more than one correct ways to hold the hand and move fingers file nails etc etc.
The one absolute I have found, and ties in to metronome use is RHYTHM. More than just practicing evenly and coordinating movements in time, you need to always FEEL a groove of sorts in the techniques you work on. So I find more efficient time spent not going super slow all the time, but rather looping small phrases at a MEDIUM tempo groove of some sort. All and any techniques can be approached this way such that once the technique becomes a "feeling" as part of a rhythmic phrase then you've got a more natural flow to your playing in general. Of course if you have a phrase that is just impossible to groove on at medium speed you need to take the tempo down...like your superman as Grisha said with music we get that chance to experience slow motion to focus on precision....but I just think no matter how slow you go, try to make it still FEEL like a groove of some sort.
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
Speaking on inspiring !! u keeping secrets Ricardo OLE!!! absolutely brilliant man...just found this by accident just then cause someone on my friends list on facebook posted it...and i am thinking ...I KNOW that guitarist !!...why wouldn't you say anything, why is this the first time i am seeing this ...i can never understand you modest people...if i was playing in something as good as this you would know about it...5 times a day...through youtube, hotmail, facebook, myspace and then i would call you up to see if you watched it
can i see the rest of this ? was there more ?
really great stuff man OLE x 4! its so well put together and everyone is so together I love the letra selection...everything is perfect..i know Fanny but who are this other people ? seen the singer before if hes the one that worked with Jason...whos the other guitarist ? was this a tv thing or a whole concert ?
Doit this should be in that youtube page for the foro
everyone accompanying dancers and singers should see this
quote:
really great stuff man OLE x 4!
on a second read...that sounds so trendy like this people that say "lol" in real life...
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
Who?
do you ever read the posts or watch videos ?...you were in the man's house for crying out loud...ok .....this explains your jokes now lol
quote:
Speaking on inspiring !! u keeping secrets Ricardo OLE!!! absolutely brilliant man...just found this by accident just then cause someone on my friends list on facebook posted it...and i am thinking ...I KNOW that guitarist !!...why wouldn't you say anything, why is this the first time i am seeing this ...i can never understand you modest people...if i was playing in something as good as this you would know about it...5 times a day...through youtube, hotmail, facebook, myspace and then i would call you up to see if you watched it
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to XXX)
ooh now I see.. Ricardo plays. Ok ok.. its on the list Florian. I just had not the nerves to watch the full Solea... I played that so much in past..Im kind of fed up with Solea for dance..
quote:
do you ever read the posts or watch videos ?...you were in the man's house for crying out loud...ok .....this explains your jokes now lol
I do watch videos and read posts.. yeah. =) But all has been said till/including Ricardos post..so why read further? I don´t like it when people don´t come to the point.. as well as when people continue talking when all has been said. I just got it coz your posts have a high possibility of some fun...so I checked it quickly and saw my name in it. ;))
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
quote:
I do watch videos and read posts.. yeah. =) But all has been said till/including Ricard's post..so why read further?
take it easy bro i am not picking on you ...well i am but in a joking way...sometimes i dont have the energy either...and just scan through posts...specially topics that have been covered to death....
I understand...unless theres an argument...they are always interesting..
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
We have the same opinion. haha
WHAT ? get me admin !! i been here since 2003! what is this bull*it
EDIT...
see even then i didn't read properly what u said...just scanned through lol i thought you said we have the same editing option
this is like two deff and blind people having a conversation lol...you not reading me and i am just scanning through yours but dosent stop us responding
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
LOL
EDIT: LOL2
EDIT2: We are guys..its pretty normal that we shut off our brains or think about different things (what to eat,..whats in TV this evening) when somebody talks too much.... haha
EDIT3: btw we just have a pretty complex conversation answering about several levels of re-edited posts above. Thats like inception with dicaprio. We are cool. :)
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Doitsujin)
ive done embarrassing things like that like someone makes a long post about apples and i scan and understand the wrong thing and i make a 1 page reply about tomatoes...and i go away (thinking to myself " that was pretty intelligent talking flo :-)" ...i come back 3 days later...look at the post..20 other people replied...I am wondering why is this guy acknowledging everyone else BUT me...then i realize ...OHH it was apples
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Doitsujin)
the only benefit to starting my own thread...i dont have to deal with the guilt of screwing up someone elses thread...i am always going off subject...even in my own thread...cause sometimes i scan even through my own thread and misunderstand what the topic i started was about ...i dont see why i should give myself special treatment
i wish people at the top would stop starring and judging making me very uncomfortable..i can feel you looking down on me with your judging ways and your silence...like you better then me
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I only add that statement "practice makes perminant"...rather than 'perfect". So When Grisha says practice CORRECTLY....that becomes super important as there are more than one correct ways to hold the hand and move fingers file nails etc etc.
The one absolute I have found, and ties in to metronome use is RHYTHM. More than just practicing evenly and coordinating movements in time, you need to always FEEL a groove of sorts in the techniques you work on. So I find more efficient time spent not going super slow all the time, but rather looping small phrases at a MEDIUM tempo groove of some sort. .....Of course if you have a phrase that is just impossible to groove on at medium speed you need to take the tempo down...like your superman as Grisha said with music we get that chance to experience slow motion to focus on precision....but I just think no matter how slow you go, try to make it still FEEL like a groove of some sort.
Ricardo
I practiced like that for years, it helped me to master and maintain material and to become more consistent and experienced. It also helped me to reach and maintain a high level, but only to a certain extent. One day (close to my yearly exam) i decided that i wanted to become at least 10 times better and more drastic measures were needed.
I decided to forgot everything i'd learned during the previous 20 years and to start from scratch. I was intended to learn myself to play the guitar again from level zero. From Paco de Lucia i went back to simple exercises like 1234, but this time with FOCUS. Soon i discovered that playing 1234 was still way to difficult because no one can focus on 3 things at the same time (left hand,right hand and rhythm)....and with focus i mean 200% concentration. So i studied left and right hand separately, only to find out 4 fingers were still a lot to deal with. So i went back to 1 finger and from 1 finger to parts off fingers and from...well you goth my drift.
The first week i studied 1 hour a day....very simple exercises (blinking an eye would come close) investigating every cell in my body and my guitar. I did tonal experiments (just find yourself a perfect tone and listen to it's development), surged and found better ways to generate/transpose energy and i started to adapt mental trainings. Everything i did with incredible focus, absorbing all new elements and as soon as i new the right feeling i abandoned my guitar to continue practicing in my head only.
Every single day i emptied my glass (you can't adapt new knowledge if you are full of old crap) putting in enormous amounts of energy, guiding, monitoring and evaluating events with complete focus. 1 hour of "on focus" training equaled 40 hours of "normal repetitive training", both in input as in output. I went to hell and back. I studied complete relaxation of fingers, hands, arms, feelings, thoughts, energy generation/transposal, techniques (scales,gripings, bindings, tremolo, arpeggio, pulgar you name it) tonal generations, tonal development, acoustics, feeling string energy etc.etc. Just like Grisha i favored variation, absolute focus, absolute relaxation and absolute control over rhythm or direct results. As a matter of fact i didn't only play slowly, i actually played without rhythm, favoring absolute control and awareness over all other aspects.
The next week i practiced 2 hours a day. 1 hour of mental, technical, energetical, tonal and acoustic experiments and 1 hour of adapting music, but ones again prevailing absolute control in energy input, relaxation, movements and thought over all other aspects. As it turned out focusing on extremely small objects in combination with mental visualization brings one in a higher state of awareness allowing you to spot even more. As a result various laws of nature revealed them self to me that were completely unknown to me before. I could see, understand, handle and visualize more and more complex situations. The third week i raised to 3 hours a day. At the end of week 3 (40 hours of training) i did indeed raise my level from level 1 to level 10 on a workable base
In stead of 6 strings and 12 positions i (more or less) felt 1 string and 1 position. Unlike before my left hand little finger became my new point of reference for positioning, replacing the regular index finger. My right hand could execute all techniques from almost 1 position. I generated and transposed a "completely" different kind of energy. I could mentally run trough complete pieces, feeling fingers, string energy, guitar resonance you name it. I could even spot string vibration and discovered that you can only add new energy on very specific moments...it felt like pushing someone in a swing, If you push at the right moment you add energy, if you push at the wrong moment you block energy. I did that with trembling strings like i had a build in oscilloscope slowing down time. Dynamics was "replaced" by energy levels (which is quite a different thing). Rhythm was "replaced" by meticulous energybalance control.
After i passed my yearly exam i went to the beach, 1 day became 2 and soon i lost everything i gained. Like before i continued playing chess 12/7 (with zero results, no talents on that field i'm afraid) only attending weekly lessons at music high school and doing some occasional routine exercises. And every year (4 years on a row) i managed to rebuild myself from scratch in the last 4 weeks with above harsh regime and with consistent results.
So for me it works. None of this ever came to me performing "mindless metronome repetition"*. Obviously one can adapt this approach again as soon as one is re- calibrated..... if one still feels the need :-)
I know first hand that 30 hours of "power study' with THE RIGHT STATE OF MIND (both it's strength and it's weakness) beats years of medium tempo drillings. Unfortunately i lost my lust/ability to study like that 20 years ago because the amount of energy exchange is nerve ragging. So right now i restrict my training to medium tempo drillings as well, accepting and suffering all it's limitations.
i'll tell more about some of the exercises i applied later.....keep posted
*actually this is not true... i once had to play two directional index strokes for 2 hours on a row (at a dancing school situation) and after two hours of mindless repeating i suddenly found a different way of generating energy which combined LESS input with MORE output. It felt like going from manual to electric. Unfortunately i had to focus on the dance lesson and had no time to analyze and safe that feeling at that very moment. I never was able to re-find that superior way of playing in later "expeditions".
Posts: 15854
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Some Inspiering Wisdom on Practice (in reply to Florian)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Florian
Speaking on inspiring !! u keeping secrets Ricardo OLE!!! absolutely brilliant man...just found this by accident just then cause someone on my friends list on facebook posted it...and i am thinking ...I KNOW that guitarist !!...why wouldn't you say anything, why is this the first time i am seeing this ...i can never understand you modest people...if i was playing in something as good as this you would know about it...5 times a day...through youtube, hotmail, facebook, myspace and then i would call you up to see if you watched it
can i see the rest of this ? was there more ?
really great stuff man OLE x 4! its so well put together and everyone is so together I love the letra selection...everything is perfect..i know Fanny but who are this other people ? seen the singer before if hes the one that worked with Jason...whos the other guitarist ? was this a tv thing or a whole concert ?
Doit this should be in that youtube page for the foro
everyone accompanying dancers and singers should see this
quote:
really great stuff man OLE x 4!
on a second read...that sounds so trendy like this people that say "lol" in real life...
Sorry I don't normally advertise myself much. This was a special gig in Hollywood California 2009. THere was an entire DVD of this gig, very pro filming, 7 dancers I think...it all moved along quick and very very little rehearsal. It was meant to be sort of improvised. THe 3 highlights were a duet Taranto dance mostly my music. The rest was pretty improvised between myself and the other guitarist ANtonio TRiana. Fanny here was the LEAST rehearsed I only saw the opening llamada before doing this performance...it was 100% improvised and I had never worked with her before. The singer is Jesus Montoya...the live in Fresno CD I sell is with him. THe percussionist is also a singer El Yiyi....from spain but lived in New Mexico and worked with CHuscales for years. Her performance is perfect example of what happens when a good dancer is able to lead the musicians where she wants to go. My experience on stage is same as yours the first time you watch this.
The 3rd highlight was the main dancer Antonio Granjero...in stark contrast to Fanny his dance was super long and completely not improvised...totally arranged. We rehearsed for a couple hours....it turned out despite its length and complexity and the fact I never worked with him before, I simply followed the singer percussionist Yiyi...he iis sort of like an orchestral conductor. So Thanks to him the whole performance came off like super rehearsed and tight. But as I said I was not accompanying him like we did for Fanny I was just glued to the percussionist. so two extremes but both with great results.
I lent the DVD to one of the dancers and have mispaced it though she claims she returned it. It was very good qualty filming and audio, with no run through of the show the sound guys really know their **** and adjusted levels appropriately. I totally got the picture why Hollywood is the center of the entertainment world after that gig...super pro.
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from Russia said and my name, and where my fingers for exercises are and anything to do with anything......yeah yeah yeah whatever... practice with mind or something i got it....go away 
...OHH it was apples 
...i dont see why i should give myself special treatment 
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