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rombsix

Posts: 7863
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

The internet is in danger! 

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/English_Wikipedia_anti-SOPA_blackout

vimeo.com/31100268

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 17 2012 15:55:15
 
tonos

Posts: 23
Joined: Sep. 2 2009
From: The Hague

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

If you feel like adding a signature...
http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_internet/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 17 2012 19:30:00
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

yes ramzi you're right I've read a lot about sopa and pipa
and I watched that video before

check this when you have some time


it seems to be a very serious topic that would ruin the web, but on the other hand many people are taking a symbolic stand against SOPA and PIPA ... calling them as two awful laws ... so am not sure how effective those laws will be

although those laws seems to be so powerful but personally I don't think they will be able to control piracy completly ... man hackers are all over the web ... p2p apps such as LimeWire are spread like crazy ... torrents and emule project etc .....
I really doubt they will be able to control all that

anyway I suggest that you go and start downloading everything on the web enjoy it as it lasts

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 14:07:49
 
rombsix

Posts: 7863
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Elie

quote:

anyway I suggest that you go and start downloading everything on the web enjoy it as it lasts




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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 14:52:42
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to rombsix

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 17:08:03
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Elie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elie

... as it lasts


Which I guess is rather what such skimpy bills are about, rather than pleaded copy right issues.

The internet is a too informative and democratic means from a few´s perspective, for to be left alone for much longer in the way it is.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 17:11:52
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

quote:

The internet is a too informative and democratic means from a few´s perspective, for to be left alone for much longer in the way it is.

That's right
watch this girl

they tried to take down megaupload

EDIT: her voice is little bit annoying

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 20:22:43
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

Yeah its ridiculous how some people in the gov do dumb things without listening to people who actually know something... Its like here in the foro...some people just don´t listen to my profound advice...they just do and do the wrong thing... lol! xD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 21:59:15
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

copyright issue humm!!...let me think about it

maybe we should ask Ricardo or Jason or whatever Artists who worked hard to produce something to give us their work for free.

Yeah lets make a petition for this. What daya think? I propose to ask mc guire to give us Dr compas for free available via a megaupload link


WHO'S IN??

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 22:08:12
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

Sorry but the internet is actually a mess of wasted binary code storage space in most cases. SOME of it is actually good and useful.....but the arrogance of most people who can make "their own website" or type and upload anything they can get their greasy hands on, is out of control as I see it.

I think everyone of age should be required to pass some random intellectual quiz before accessing most portions of the internet. What freedom has allowed is people who think their opinions on ALL issues give a gold pass to speak or act as they please...much different to real face to face life. Freedom is abused far more then it is appreciated truly for what it is. Some dorks think blacking out their precious websites makes them feel like powerful gods to be reckoned with ....THEY AREN"T! They are just computer nerds.
IMO

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 22:24:59
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

hahah.. yeah..but to be honest..this bill is actually really a very very bad stupid thing. It must be avoided for any cost. Its pure dumbness at its best.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2012 23:20:32
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA? I would appreciate reading responses from those who think these bills place the internet in danger. Specifically, I have two questions:

A. Do those who are opposed to the bills think that online piracy and theft of intellectual property should be a right of anyone who can download music, literature, art, or any other type of copyrighted material or intellectual property? Do they think that musicians, authors, and artists do not have a right to collect the royalties they otherwise would have collected had their work not been pirated or downloaded without payment?

B. If those opposed to SOPA and PIPA agree that copyrighted material and intellectual property should be protected, and that piracy should be discouraged and even punished, what is it about these two bills that is so objectionable?

I am not trying to start an argument, but I would be interested in the responses from those opposed to the bills.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 0:55:40
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH

B doesnt exist without A, so i will just concentrate on A:

the Internet is both. It contains legal and illegal stuff. So far some of the companies complain about loosing money. But its not like they dont sell anything anymore. Its just less then what they were used to be. Maybe they should just get used to the fact that music can be shared 24h/day all around the world. On the other hand the Internet has helped many unknown artists to get publicity they would never had gotten without it (Ricardo, you are one of them ). And this was all without these bills. Thus my conclusion is that the Internet rocks and these bills s*ck. For some reason my spelling checker wants to write Internet in capital letters, dont know if thats correct.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 1:23:37
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

#
I remember intensive discussions in the audio recording community about copyright infringement with illegal downloads, years ago.
The supporters of a free internet delivered much more of hard facts than the hysterical fraction of defenders of intellectual property.
It was almost as unbalanced like creationists discussing palaeontologists.

The free exchange of music files after all also functions as a marketing tool that results in legal obtain of albums, which again reduces the actual loss in turn-over to much less than the the industry pretends.
Which is also why a number of artists choses to offer music for free.

The ones who are actually negatively affected with a mere 20% less return are major labels, who yearn for their spoiled times of cockaigne which yet wouldn´t keep them from squeezeing out their gagged artists. Which again is why a not too small number of artists decided to leave and promote their stuff independently over the internet.

The major labels still are doing very well, only a bit less affluent than before the internet.
And it must be considered that not all of the 1/5 of profit decline are being caused by illegal downloads.
In former times the market share was concentrated on a much smaller number of internationally promoted artists than today. With the options of the internet consumers purchasing power is being spread among a much greater number of interprets, of which more and more are being endorsed under indie labels or through own domains.

So, all in all true losses on margin are far below of what conservative hooter likes to pretend, and not even worth mentioning before the general advantage of a free internet.

Another point worth considering is that a substantial share of illegal downloads is being determined by the habit of exessive profiteering.
Many of the consumers of software for instance would certainly prefer to buy a legal copy instead of downloading cracks. Much for reason of legitimacy; partially because of the malware.
But the capitalist premisse of squeeze-all-that´s-possible leads to pricings that end up way beyound of what could be appearing remotely adequate. The more specialized the software and the less competing products there are, the more through the roof it gets.

From there I recall my message to a sales director of an audio effects maker, who at that time used to be the most famous and most overpriced brand. I suggested to him to settle on somewhat reasonable pricing and earn just as much, if not more through a growing customer base, whilst the interest on cracking should diminish.
His answer was furious.

So, I started publicly illuminating the growing strengths of competitors´effects and pointing out the hazzles and shortcomings of the aforementioned brand, soon and increasingly confirmed by the user community. Not too long afterwards, with the steadily acknowledged and improving products of competition, the fancy brand´s market position changed dramatically. And they couldn´t regain despite the encrease of price drops and concessions made. And yet, though much more humbly now, they are certainly still doing well.

Cracks would hardly exist, and lesser even be used, if demanded originals were being offered at a fair deal.
Same counts for albums which for no reason are often offered for double of what even venyls once used to cost. - With yet, the artists ( and increasingly recording studios too) receiving only crumbs.


#
Objectable about SOPA and PIPA is not only the distortion and hypocricy behind it, but the fact that such laws once introduced will be used to restrict the internet in other regards than just copyright protection.
SOPA and PIPA are Troyan Horses of regime.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 10:39:59
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA? I would appreciate reading responses from those who think these bills place the internet in danger. Specifically, I have two questions:


I have no time to read the questions but the anwer is: The idea for the bills is a good thing, but they are much to general so that they affect a wide range of things which arent necessary. And thata the problem. Because what it affects beside of its purpose aren´t minor things. This is severe. Anybody who dont see that is ... Thats Fact.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 12:32:43
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to rombsix

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 13:36:39
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to XXX

quote:

On the other hand the Internet has helped many unknown artists to get publicity they would never had gotten without it (Ricardo, you are one of them ).


Excuse me sir, but I was playing out years before I even got on line to check email.

I have gotten some gigs and work etc via internet...but it pales in comparison to LIVING HUMAN NETWORKING. In fact, I would say that I have advertised just as much or more, FOR stuff online when people ask me AT GIGS what's going on or where they can find info etc...compared to advertising I have received thanks to internet. Main thing is youtube. quick easy way to show somebody something...but it is not be all end all of life. Keeping contacts with friends and such is made easier quick and cheap, but in the old days we had A TELEPHONE! and we could write a letter or send a photo. It's just easier now that's all.

People act like the world ends if the power goes out and can't check email. Personalities are growing behind keyboards but they are not "real" and should not be affect by something silly like taking down a web site or disabled email or "sharing" site.

And about sharing and copyright.....has been discussed endlessly on the foro in the past. If internet goes totally off line...I still have my friends and guitar and gigs etc. Only problem is RECORD STORES ARE GONE. Why? cuz of this sharing **** and add to cart on line buying ****. I can't buy an album to check out for a few weeks anymore....I can download an entire discography in seconds and listen to some of it IF I have the time. People don't value time any more or music or anything because it is all there at a touch of a button.

Ok, true it was easier to make a CD and sell myself....but honestly, I make the money from the CD playing out at gigs. Online, some people can download my new cd cheap as **** cuz of a stupid box I forgot to not check. It is ridiculous. Great that folks think cuz everything is so cheap quick and easy that it "promotes" us and "exposes us" as artists.....well ever heard "you can die from exposure"? I reserve the right to actually NOT sell my CD to people who I think don't appreciate certain aspects. At a gig someone once said "$20 bucks? Thats crazy, I will just download it...." another person "$20 bucks? That is crazy....I will give you 15...what do you say?" I say "sorry, I am sold out"....

Anyway, I have made a point to actually meet in person a lot of the internet personalities I have encountered, for the reasons I describe above. I think its really important. Sure, there is a chance I might have never met some great people in my life thanks to the internet shrinking the world....but in the end the flamenco world has always been pretty small anyway.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 15:06:37
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

Bill - The problem with SOPA and PIPA is that they give the copyright industry control over what's allowed on the internet. A whole site can be shut down just because of a complaint from ASCAP. This website will surely be one that is deemed pirate because of the youtube links to copyrighted material. Does that seem like a fair, or even well-thought-out model?

The copyright industry doesn't care about creativity, nor does it actually care about maintaining the artist's intellectual property rights. They only care about their money and how much more they can be making if everyone was forced to buy their products.

There are plenty of good alternatives to piracy nowadays. iTunes store, Spotify, Amazon, etc, are all either selling or letting the user stream music for a minimal fee. The same can be said for TV shows and movies. It's easier to pay $10/month to netflix and be able to stream a whole lot of content than it is to go out looking for torrents. That's the solution to piracy, give the customer what they want rather than make them jump through hoops.

Ricardo - Wake up! The world is not only flamenco. In fact, flamenco (and music in general) are such a small part of (most people's) life that it can be considered insignificant. The internet is not only a place for people to sell their CDs or write their silly thoughts. There's actual information that's being shared on the web. Things that you would never probably never hear about otherwise. New scientific innovations, political uprisings, natural disasters, etc. The internet is a means of communication and if governments starts censoring it (actually they already do, but the US is still 'free') it's a slippery slope to Orwell's 1984.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 17:50:19
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Ricardo

You have to take into account not just direct money from selling CDs via Online shop. The Internet helps promoting. How much is the percentage of the "customers" that booked you ONLY because they found you on the internet? Or because someone showed them one of your performances on the net? Part of the reason why unknown people can get quite famous is because of this viral quality of the internet. Remember the quote that everybody will be famous for 15 minutes! The Internet is not there to feed you with money until the end. It is up to you (not you personal) to use it to establish networking. Well im no pro, its just my thoughts how i would do it if i was gigging.

Regardless i know that many artists do the same gigs every year, for 20 years, and they have the connections already. Ok, good. Such people do not need the internet. But that is no reason to say its not useful, and not extremely extremely important for other artists.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 18:34:04
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA?

Bill,
Chester, rumbaking and Ruphus have raised the main points.

A writer in Forbes (yes) says succinctly that SOPA is "an odious piece of legislation that would allow domain names to be erased from the web without due process of law".

Here's a concise summary:
Four reasons why the Web hates the U.S. anti-piracy acts

Why it would also be bad for many people's business:
How SOPA Could Ruin My Life

A publisher's point of view:
Piracy is not a real problem

and:
There’s no evidence that the United States is currently suffering from an excessive amount of online piracy

Lots more:
https://www.eff.org/search/site/sopa

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 19:09:12
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester

quote:

This website will surely be one that is deemed pirate because of the youtube links to copyrighted material.

wow that's seems just ridiculous.

So the bill expects to shut down all the forum or blogs that refers to copyrighted materials (as links providers)?

But why these bills do not forced Youtube to RESPECT the copyright instead? Oh wait maybe coz the owner is Google. He's toooo big and the looby might be very powerfull. Megaupload or rapidshare might be thin in comparison.

Instead the little blogger or forumite website with no real power to defend themself by the loobying act gonna be shoot off.

If that's the case then these are suking laws.



quote:

The Internet helps promoting. How much is the percentage of the "customers" that booked you ONLY because they found you on the internet?

I'd ask this same question to the luthiers involved in this foro too

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 19:23:54
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Estevan

Thanks to all of you for your responses to my initial query. All posts have been interesting and thoughtful. In any case, as of today, several U.S. Congressmen have withdrawn support for the bills.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 19:53:53
 
rombsix

Posts: 7863
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

In any case, as of today, several U.S. Congressmen have withdrawn support for the bills.


All because of THIS thread.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 20:54:46
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to mezzo

quote:

But why these bills do not forced Youtube to RESPECT the copyright instead? Oh wait maybe coz the owner is Google. He's toooo big and the looby might be very powerfull. Megaupload or rapidshare might be thin in comparison.

Actually these bills would make Google accountable for the content on Youtube.

It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 20:58:52
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester

quote:

It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.

ahaha!! I can imagine an exfiltration operation by the new special agency these bills could create to enforce the law all over the world.
You americans are too much

But if Google become accountable then this should solve the issues no? Coz all the material available on YT since then should be "legalize".

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 21:43:57
 
Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester

quote:

It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.


"One tweet making the viral rounds during the blackout was, "Under SOPA, you could get 5 years for uploading a Michael Jackson song, one year more than the doctor who killed him."

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Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 22:12:09
 
rombsix

Posts: 7863
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Estevan



_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 5:24:10
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Elie

quote:

man hackers are all over the web

just assisting my own point of view
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/19/business/megaupload-shutdown/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories

China is the land of hackers and I think if US pushed those bills any further ... they will face real problems with hackers all over the world ... and not sure if they can track hackers in china (as an example)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 5:51:51
 
rombsix

Posts: 7863
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Elie

quote:

just assisting my own point of view


Hada inteh, mahek wla?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 6:13:40
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix

quote:

Hada inteh, mahek wla?

hahahahaha kamashtniii mara tanyee

"We Anonymous are launching our largest attack ever on government and music industry sites. Lulz,"

a7la shee el "lulz" bel a5er lulz

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http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 8:10:44
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