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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

With me it was never anything like that. Simply put I always felt if I have this one to play why would I want to play that one. Amazing how a guitar that you love one day can become instantly worthless to you when you make one that's better. I speak of this in the past tense since I can't play guitar anymore due to arthritis but I do have two beautiful pianos and three tractors so I guess I'm not immune to the collector bug.


Well, ok... Its not good for business but I prefer being honest...

I totally agree with John. I only play 1 guitar (and the beater as well, but that doesnt count) And the reasons that John just described are totally mine as well.
I have one of my best ever blancas for sale... And I never play it. 2 reasons. I dont want to ding it. Its mint condition and there´s another babe that I prefer.

Just one more thing... Since I like tractors a lot, do you only drive one tractor or what?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 6:59:02
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

This thread is witty and fun to read. :O)

Paco dL I think owns heaps of guitars, and I know a professional guitarist who owned over 70 last time we talked about it.
-

I agree with Shawn:
Almost every time that I see our luthier´s special offers here I feel so tempted to order, damnit.
- What they offer for 2 or 3 grands is just so uncomparable to the common serial production properties you get in common stores for yet 2 to 3 times the price.
-

Arash could be right with his faible for Conde negras.
Said negra item I estimate to once have been a Conde ( unable to tell whether it was a classical or flamenca, for having had no clue at that time ) just sounded so incredibly sonor, no matter whether played Spanish or classical style.

And yet, alone seen from Paco´s videos, in my opinion the best sounding he ever played was a blanca he used in those sixties kitchen sessions. I never got why he settled on negras after that.

And also from my personal experience, I´d say: ... Blancas all the way.
-

Of wine you would want a selection to choose from for different kind of meals.

Though, if you ask me personally:
I have always found that wine only messes up with the flavour of the meal, as it removes so radically from your tongue foods delicious taste that you want to stay.

I love cooking with wine, but other than that prefer meal and wine separately.

-But what am I talking anyway; with the absent facility here, craving for a good bottle since years now ...
Me keeps telling friends at home that they shall touch glasses on behalf of yours truely and his deserted lust.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 13:38:04
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3144
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

And also from my personal experience, I´d say: ... Blancas all the way.


At the risk of repeating my earlier post on this thread, I agree with you regarding flamenco guitars, Ruphus: "Blancas all the way." Except with wine, that is, which I prefer to be red 90 percent of the time. I even prefer red wine with fish, preceded, of course, by a copita of "jerez muy seco" as an aperitif.

Cheers,

Bill

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Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 13:51:35
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
Just one more thing... Since I like tractors a lot, do you only drive one tractor or what?

One of them is Susan's gardening tractor, one is for mowing and the other bigger one is for heavy work like tilling, post hole digging, chipping, etc. It's amazing how much work one person can do with the help of a tractor. I haven't found a way to integrate one into the guitar making but I'm open to suggestions .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 14:10:02
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

At the risk of repeating my earlier post on this thread, I agree with you regarding flamenco guitars, Ruphus: "Blancas all the way." Except with wine, that is, which I prefer to be red 90 percent of the time. I even prefer red wine with fish, preceded, of course, by a copita of "jerez muy seco" as an aperitif.

Cheers,

Bill


While at it:

I like both moderately sweet, mostly prefering white one as many reds tend to be bitter / giving a feeling as if your gum would be wrinkling up into one´s brain.
-

The past envogue decades besides have been great example and demo for sheepish trendy being.
Only because some silly gourmet had been promoting dry ( better to say sour wine) followed by parotting columnist alikes, each and everyone who considered himself fancy from then on would dissmiss sweet sorts from the get go, consistantly doing to themselves squeaky stuff.

That went on for about ~ 25 years, until as of late actually pleasent temper is being gradually rehabilitated, progressively promoted by gourmets.

To think that ancient peotry was celebrating some sour grape juice makes for a funny idea, I think.
-

Should we at a time be having dinner you can have my portion of wine while I be glad to scoop away your dish escorted by pure water.
Don´t worry, though tasting slowly I can do away like a grizzly right after hibernation; if the cuisine is well. :O)

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 14:25:24
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

@estabanana.....can you build me a Conde Negra Copy ?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 16:12:01
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

I have 2 nice guitars. When I only had one I wondered why people would have more than one. And now I like having 2 because every other month or so I switch. They each have a different sound but I like both. Every time I go back to a guitar I rediscover it's sound.
I guess a good analogy would be to eat spaghetti all the time, after a while you don't really taste all the little variances and it becomes bland. The spaghetti has not changed, is still good, you just need a break to rediscover it.

Man, you could replace the word guitar with many things in this text and get in trouble.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 18:47:07
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to jshelton5040

quote:

Collectors are complete puzzle to me. Sorry if I offended anyone, no malice intended.
Really you don't get it? Well it starts like this, I NEED the blonde, but the brunette is nice....and now a nice red head. And it keeps going till you can't afford it anymore and have to start making trades.



quote:

And yet, alone seen from Paco´s videos, in my opinion the best sounding he ever played was a blanca he used in those sixties kitchen sessions. I never got why he settled on negras after that.


He didn't...he recorded his last album with 2 blancas. It is just he uses that one guitar for concerts, that's all. He even admits he does not use it at home. Someone else said he has to use that same guitar because of some superstition. It has been refinished several times and a new rosette even, so I am inclined to believe the superstition story because that is crazy to do for ONE guitar when you can use any other.


Just wanted to add after reading the whole thread, yeah it totally sucks to sell or trade a guitar....but oddly, all the guitars I have sold or traded somehow magically resurface into the hands of people close enough to me that I could in theory play them or even get em back someday. Wife calls it my "herum".

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2012 23:17:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Arash

quote:

@estabanana.....can you build me a Conde Negra Copy ?



Only if you use it busk at the bus station and keep it off the big stage where it does not belong. ( drips sarcasm to the floor)



I don't know why I hate Conde's so much, it's totally irrational. Except that maybe I got ripped off buying one before I knew better about how to buy a guitar. And I also don't like how they typically sound or feel. But other than that I'm quite rational.

I have one guitar that Chris Berkov made for me in 1997. I've played the same guitar since then. I play the ones I make too, but I have not had the luxury of being able to afford keeping one yet for myself. Which is totally ironic because usually luthiers set out to build guitars and learn the craft because they can't afford a great guitar. Then when they learn it and get good they have bills to pay and end up selling the one they made for them self, over and over. The one I just finished would like to stay with me,but I have to let it go. I think at some point a guitarmaker gets over that feeling, but then that is when you should probably hang it up.

Also I weigh in on the side of personally favoring blancas over negras in almost every case. Would have two blancas in an ideal world; the one that is the guitar I can't live without and the other one which is even better. Which means my best one ever and a Santos, Gerundino or Barbero. But my Berkov is pretty special too.

We can all dream, even luthiers.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 0:01:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I don't know why I hate Conde's so much, it's totally irrational. Except that maybe I got ripped off buying one before I knew better about how to buy a guitar. And I also don't like how they typically sound or feel. But other than that I'm quite rational.


Maybe cuz you build guitars that are different in style, yet since the 1960s just about every pro flamenco guitarist up to present day at least owns one if not uses one or more exclusively for recording and performing with? Blame Niño Ricardo, Melchor de Marchena, and Manolo de Huelva if you want.

If I was a builder, I would simply build a conde and tell everybody "yes, my guitar sounds pretty much like a conde and if you want it to look like one too, why not!"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 19 2012 13:31:26
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Blame Niño Ricardo, Melchor de Marchena, and Manolo de Huelva if you want.


Yes but Conde's were better then and Ricardo, Melchior and Manolo would walk ten miles in the snow to school every morning. And the cases were much heavier then, and they had holes in their little shoes until they grew up and made money playing jobs with Antonio Mairena.

Now Conde's are made of disposable recycled 'safety orange' diapers and every idiot with a credit card can get one to signify they know something about flamenco. Not you of course and because I recognize every pro player has one. But there were other makers and players. Bacan and Paco del Gastor often played Gerundinos-

If they just came up with a color that was so to horrid I might be able to take it. I can also build a something like Conde sound and have, but with so many other sounds to explore it seems kinda boring. That Moth guitar I have for sale is very Condeish, but in a much more individualistic package. We are trying to be individuals right? I can't see making someone elses guitars any more than wholesale stealing someone falsetas and never making up your own toque. Why would I want to make a Reyes? I'm not Reyes. I think the Spanish respect individuality more than being a sycophant who tries to get into their culture by buying what is cool.

The conundrum for the American who wants to build guitars in the Spanish tradition is do you make copies of Spanish makers or do you learn the aire' of the tradition and do your own thing based on you work the way a Spaniard does?

Honestly I like a few Condes' and I take care of a few that belong to friends. I work on them with as much respect as any other fine guitar. But I really get disgusted at those who buy them just to signify they are in to flamenco and not because that is the tool they really need. there are lots of different kinds of guitars to play a be heard on and I know the Conde' is often the default guitar because of they way they steer in traffic. I'm just skeptical of those who drive them for show.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 18:35:37
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3012
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
Honestly I like a few Condes' and I take care of a few that belong to friends. I work on them with as much respect as any other fine guitar. But I really get disgusted at those who buy them just to signify they are in to flamenco and not because that is the tool they really need.


The Condes themselves used to take revenge on those who bought just for show. The first time I went to the Gravina shop in the '60s or early '70s Faustino was in the front of the store. I asked for one of their best blancas. The young guy behind the counter handed me one of the most villainous pieces of junk I ever held in my hands.

The neck was not only bent, but also twisted. The frets were uneven and rough. There was glue splashing out from under every piece inside, running into the tool marks. The two pieces of the top were mismatched, had serious runout and actually had knots in them. The thing was nearly impossible to play, besides being dead as a doornail.

I played a couple of soleares falsetas, and handed the guitar back without comment. Faustino nodded to the kid behind the counter, who disappeared for a few moments and reappeared with a quite respectable blanca.

I played the decent guitar for a while. Not that I was a great player, but it was rare to hear an American play in compas in those days. A young boy came in off the street and stopped to listen. He was sent down the street to fetch the professor. I assume the professor was correctly diagnosing my falsetas ripped off from Mario Escudero and Sabicas as he whispered into Faustino's ear.

I bought some strings and a capo and left. I never bought a guitar from them, but I was treated with courtesy each time I returned.

I saw at least a half dozen Americans who had bought the junk guitars they had been handed, at the price of the best.

One of my best friends had his daughter, who was studying in Madrid at the time, pick out a new '76 blanca from the Gravina shop, helped by a pro classical guitarist whose name I recognized but have now forgotten.

When it arrived, I felt sorry for my friend. The guitar was as dead as a yellow pine board. I never said anything about it. Over two or three years' time it opened up into a great instrument. It was one of only one two at the time that I liked better than my '67 Ramirez blanca. But I certainly would not have walked out of the shop with it new.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 20:34:58
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

I would have liked very much to have met Faustino.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 21:39:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Yes but Conde's were better then and Ricardo, Melchior and Manolo would walk ten miles in the snow to school every morning.


Well I own one, and I played several others from 50's till 80's when Faustino died. I can't honestly admit that they are orders of magnitude different or better then an A26 from say the 90's. In fact, most of the A26's I have played were a touch louder but over all the same type of instrument. That's my opinion as a player. I like my old guitar cuz it's a "faustino" and it's older then me...but honestly it is same darn design and sound more or less as a modern Conde. I guess I have played a couple "bad" condes...but not as many as good ones.

Anyway...I was just trying to annoy you anyway don't mind me.
quote:

Now Conde's are made of disposable recycled 'safety orange' diapers and every idiot with a credit card can get one to signify they know something about flamenco.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 22:32:20

FredSanford

Posts: 87
Joined: Sep. 13 2011
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Ricardo

Betcha don't gotz one of these....



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 22:40:10
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to FredSanford

quote:

Betcha don't gotz one of these....


Nah it's too damn loud!!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 23:20:36
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

I'm just annoying you back. Beacaue I can.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 20 2012 23:38:24
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3012
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I would have liked very much to have met Faustino.


It would have been interesting to observe your meeting. I subscribe to the Journal of American Lutherie. The spirit of cooperation and helpfulness of the Guild is remarkable.

It might have been that when Faustino realized you were the real deal he would have opened up and been friendly. On the other hand, he might have displayed the attitude of secretiveness and suspicion that was all too prevalent at the time.

I was acquainted with Jose Ramirez III, Manuel Contreras Sr, Felix Manzanero, and to a lesser extent Paulino Bernabe Sr. The latter three all acknowledged their debt to Ramirez III, and seemed to exist in a spirit of friendly competition. The Condes were not a part of that circle, whether by choice or by exclusion, I never knew.

I spent a pleasant couple of hours with Vicente Camacho. He talked of learning from Modesto Borreguero, the third famous disciple of Manuel Ramirez. When I asked about any disciples of his own, he smiled, a little sadly it seemed to me, and said, "Aquí trabajo solo como San Jose."

Ramirez never mentioned his former oficiales, his father, his grandfather, his great-uncle Manuel, nor any other luthier that I can think of. He had plenty to say about his own contributions to the art, but I was not a potential competitor, rather a buyer of 20 or so of his instruments, which I sold in the USA to pay for my trips to Spain.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2012 7:04:00
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Just one more thing... Since I like tractors a lot, do you only drive one tractor or what?


I have a really nice old International B275 diesel tractor, built in Doncaster in 1962. Still going strong. I work the ass off it on the farm. In fact I couldn't operate without it. But I'd love one of those fancy new compact Kubotas as well - much easier for working between the trees without knocking off the fruit!!!

I also own four flamenco guitars - 2 pegheads, 3 negras, one blanca; a BRW 1965 Martin (steel) , a 12 string Taylor (2000) and two 5-string Deering banjos. I play them all at various times. And I enjoy them all. I also enjoy playing a bit of Celtic fiddle, and ragtime piano. I guess thats why I'll never be a decent player on anything. But that doesn't prevent me from enjoying playing music. . .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2012 14:10:43
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Here in Huelva, they grow olive trees and you see a lot of very old tractors. For the same reason. You need a small one to work between the trees.
My neighbour has a really beaten up Barreiros. I should take a photo of it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 21 2012 20:05:16
 
callistoluna

Posts: 29
Joined: Aug. 20 2012
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to rogeliocan

Yes - trouble could be the word!

I have 2 guitars currently. When I had one I was just beginning and very happy with my first guitar. It is a factory made Alhmabra 4F guitar but still good....my teacher thinks it is not a bad guitar for the price (he might just be being polite but he's had a bit of a bash on it a couple of times now! )

My second guitar, I saved up for and bought an Anders 1A blanca peghead - and it is amazing. You can't compare the two. I have a hard time deciding sometimes which guitar I want to play or take with me when I am out at parties etc ( I am not professional by any means...yet!) - my beloved first guitar (also what you call a "beater") or my newest amor. More often than not I will play both in a practice session to make sure they get the exercise.

I can understand why people want more than one guitar because of the different sounds and textures you get. Same with changing strings - it can change the guitar. I tried a set of Hannabach strings on the Alhambra and they sounded like lead. Could just be me but the Luthier strings sound better on this one.

Wine is the same - you really need one bottle at the time but you always drink something different. I personally prefer reds but whether I drink a shiraz, merlot or tempranillo etc really depends on the mood.....some Cava is always nice...especially when it is hot
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2013 1:04:07
 
etta

 

Posts: 297
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

This may sound boring, but I have four guitars by one American builder, something I once said I would never do. They include two blancas, one spruce, one cedar; and two Brazilian negras, one cedar, and one DT spruce. They all produce quality sounds that please my ear and inspire my playing. But, they are all different with variety that befits any mood. I play one or two of them each day, and I bought a vibrator for the those that might get neglected now and then (the"ToneRite"). I do have a couple of beater, or camping guitars, and also some quality Spanish guitars. I believe for me the old song of "variety is the .....". Some ex wives might agree and maybe about the vibrator too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2013 1:51:30
 
dartemo1

Posts: 71
Joined: Apr. 21 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

It's an old thread but for those with multiple guitars, do you prefer to set them up teh same way in terms of the nut width, string height and tension, or you enjoy diversity?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 6 2020 1:11:39
 
ernandez R

Posts: 351
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to dartemo1

I built a parlor guitar with a narrower fretboard and shorter scale. It was for my size challenged partner ( means small and sexy) any way after playing it exclusively for a few days I pick u my 650mm sized flamenco and was surprised how much more focused my left hand fingering was. I mentioned this on the Delcamp and a couple others chimed in as having the same experience. I've sence built a pair of 666mm flamenco with 69mm spacing at the bridge and a couple mm wider at the nut and I don't really notice at all switching between them now that I've been banging away at them for a number of Months. The wider longer fretboard shore helps my fat shorter fingers.

Guessing others will,have different feelings about this. Poking around the delcamp for almost two years and I've bumped into people who have issues with a mm here or there. Who am I to judge but it doesn't make a lot of sence to me, just play the instrument?

In the end I must add that perhaps I don't have enough experience.

As far as tension I've always used Black Label classic Augustins and decide to use them on all my guitars, I've built eight so far, so,as to have a baseline or rather one variable that doesn't change as I make too many changes from one to the next.


Dartemo,
How do you feel about it?

HR

Forgot to post photo of my stable



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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 6 2020 4:10:55
 
dartemo1

Posts: 71
Joined: Apr. 21 2010
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to ernandez R

Hi HR,

Typically I rotate my 3 guitars after changing strings. One is a beater in need of lowering the string height and I am considering working on the bridge (redrilling). The other one with a pickup has been used most and I have a really good one that I'm hesitant to take and play outside of my place. They all have similar scale size around 655 mm and the only real difference apart from the string height is string spacing at nut. Might take half a day to adjust so generally I am fine playing each one continuously for a couple of weeks. Need to try a shorter scale guitar, though.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 7 2020 19:28:15
 
flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: multiple guitars (in reply to dartemo1

quote:

Typically I rotate my 3 guitars after changing strings.


I thought with my 3 I'd do that. But in the end I grab my Anders 90% of the time. It isn't that my Bernal isn't a pleasure to play, or that my Alhambra 10f is bad. It's just I remember the love that went into creating my precious

Really I should put one of the others in storage as it were, as I notice some string deterioration even with no or very little use (humidity I guess). But for sure guitars are decorative

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 7 2020 20:16:01
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