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British Riots
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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British Riots
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A while ago (in January) I made this post. "You know, a couple of weeks ago I was sorta thinking that if the Bankers and Politicians and the Privileged Classes don't stop stuffing money into their pockets while asking the rest of us to pull our belts in tighter to get through this recession....I can see almost French Revolution stuff happening throughout the world....yes..including the USA! If things don't start picking up soon for the ordinary Joe and his family, I can see these protests gaining momentum as it has done from Tunisia now spilling into Egypt. "We can't be allowed to fail" (and we are entitled to our bonuses) say the Banks... "Were all in this together" say the Politicians... Yeah, exactly....but some in it together more than others methinks.... And Joe's starting to lose faith in all of it." Sure, the people involved were from the poorer classes, just looters and chancers, who now don't even give anymore about any repercussions or anything, which is a step further than ever seen before here. This is not noble or political, just more of a loss of faith completely. I think we are all sensing it, regardless of our savings or income. I know the USA has a harder Police system than here. But I think it's probably going to spread even to the land of the free in the coming weeks/months. I hope we can reverse ourselves from this mess. cheers, Ron
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Date Aug. 9 2011 19:15:24
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: British Riots (in reply to val)
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I'm not saying that I side with these yobos, louts, chavs or whatever you want to call them. I am merely saying that this is a temperature test of our times. The post WWII parents wanted to bring their children up in an environment of freedom and discipline. In the 1950's even divorce was seen as something a bit shameful and to be discussed only in whispers. Today we have government grants and houses being given to 16 year old single mothers. Children being raised by children. The cornerstones of our society, such as the Banks and Insurance companies etc, are no longer our friendly advisors and helpers, but just other organizations out there to exploit us. Films and computer games of violence and extreme behaviour, as well as increasingly strong TV News and Documentary footage have been the diet of young folk in the past 20 years. Folk are now living in an atmosphere of general mistrust. Add to the mix, Politicians like Theresa May, the Home Secretary who can offer no intelligence, insight or gravitas to the situation, but only throwaway television sound bites to cover her own priveleged and Oxford University educated ass. Bow out with grace and take your fat pension entitlement with you is the name of the game these days as we have seen so many times now. The Law of the Jungle is looming I fear.... Some people even in third world countries have higher standards of ethics and morality than what I see here. cheers, Ron
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Date Aug. 10 2011 19:28:49
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: British Riots (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco and education isn't as important as drive when it comes to starting a business. Cf. all of the extremely successful entrepreneurs in the computer world--many never completed an undergraduate degree. Easy bro, I was thinking of basic language, math and eco skills. Those who fail lack these things, not drive IMO. What you present sounds nothing more than the fairy tale "from rags to riches". I would have thought by now, after all the stuff in newspapers or studies, it has been clearly shown that the gap between the rich and poor is increasing, not decreasing. I find that capitalism and all its idelogies and fairy tales about it are getting really boring to falsify, because its too easy. I think if one was to pinpoint the omnipresent rule of capitalism, it would be that property has to grow. And it grows best in the hands of those who already have alot of it. This system works more effectively the more concentrated the capital is, ie when the vast majority has just enough to survive. Anyway, that said i dont want to imply that these riots are politically motivated.
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Date Aug. 10 2011 20:25:11
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NenadK
Posts: 137
Joined: Jun. 6 2010
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RE: British Riots (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
What you present sounds nothing more than the fairy tale "from rags to riches". I would have thought by now, after all the stuff in newspapers or studies, it has been clearly shown that the gap between the rich and poor is increasing, not decreasing. I find that capitalism and all its idelogies and fairy tales about it are getting really boring to falsify, because its too easy. I think if one was to pinpoint the omnipresent rule of capitalism, it would be that property has to grow. And it grows best in the hands of those who already have alot of it. This system works more effectively the more concentrated the capital is, ie when the vast majority has just enough to survive. Anyway, that said i dont want to imply that these riots are politically motivated. Dead on. Using people that "made it" without an education is quite absurd. It implies that education is not an advantage. If this is so why do any of us bother? And if it is an advantage then conversely those that do not have it (because of saaayy...cuts to education) must be at a disadvantage and also a lot more likely to "fail" at their endeavours and turn to crime. As for the whole private vs public issue, having worked in both sectors I can definitely see the appeal of both. Even though I wholeheartedly support funding public programs, at this point in my life I feel that the private sectors appeals to me as well for reasons previously mentioned in the thread; If you are ambitious, young and can afford to take risks looking for the perfect job/riches I think the private sector is great. However, most people end up working for s***tty private firms that exploit their workers and often the management is shameless about it because that's all anyone expects of private businesses. I don't think that private companies are the devil but I think people need to understand that just because there isn't a market for something doesn't mean that it has no place in society. If I had to sum up my views on this issue (or anything for that matter) it would be that every ideology is doomed to fail; This includes Capitalism, Communism, Theocracies etc. Every single one is a product of a person's imagination and I think its success is dependent only on the proportion of people that believe in it. Capitalists claim that Capitalism "works" because people are selfish by nature? Not everyone is and not everyone shares that view. Communists claim that we are all in this together? Sometimes you have to look out for yourself first. As for the riots, I'm all for looking for the root of the problem instead of the obvious symptoms. I sometimes support civil unrest for the sake of achieving political change. While I do think that having better social programs and access to education may have prevented these people from growing up to be the thugs that they are, I still ultimately judge the individual by his/her own actions. While the individuals are IMO responsible for everything they've done, this does not mean that we should not push our governments to make changes which will allow future generations to be more educated and voice their grievances in a more constructive manner. Cheers N
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Date Aug. 11 2011 4:18:49
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