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RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summer 2011 ****   You are logged in as Guest
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vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to XXX

Holy crap...that was phenomenal! Thanks for all the help...GREAT vids to watch. Sometimes researching these "term papers" can be pretty fun!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2011 23:51:00
 
Schalli

 

Posts: 94
Joined: Sep. 15 2010
From: Mannheim, Germany

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

So, here comes one of my silly beginners Questions:

Most things i found the last two days regarding Malaguena use the Chords E, Am and F, right?
IS there a typical progression or order that i have to be aware of, or can i use these chords in any order when i try to make something new? Can i leave out one of these chords or stay "half an hour" on one chord without sounding "un-Malaguena"?
Thanks...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2011 8:59:29
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Schalli

quote:

IS there a typical progression or order that i have to be aware of, or can i use these chords in any order when i try to make something new? Can i leave out one of these chords or stay "half an hour" on one chord without sounding "un-Malaguena"?


Schalli,

There ARE no rules (except adherence to compás where appropriate) in Flamenco.

All the modern players from PdL onwards, "broke" all the "rules" of Traditional Flamenco.

The judgement of anything you do is good if it sounds good to seasoned Flamencos.

That's the difficult part.

Generally listen to stuff (pref Traditional) and try not to stray too far from it (to begin with) in order to be reasonably safe.

It's a bit like saying, "What are the rules to write good Jazz, Rock, etc"

The answer is, if it sounds good it IS good and that's it.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2011 10:16:21
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

A little enfoque



_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 5 2011 22:28:01
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

I noticed that all of the players had capos... Are there any "un-cappoed" malaguenas?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 15:44:00
 
villain

Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

^^^ pretty sure it's just to map to the key/range for the singer. you can play any of them without a cejilla. but I believe our cantor here want's it on the 2nd.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 15:52:03
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

Maybe someday I'll buy one of those :p
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:14:35
 
villain

Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

:-) recommended fo sho :-)
there is a guy in the classifieds that has some nice carved and inlayed ones...just get him to notch it if you get one, cause they need the notch. of course...a shubb works as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:16:56
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

quote:

you can play any of them without a cejilla. but I believe our cantor here want's it on the 2nd.


Good point , I have been looking at some stuff and presuming a female singer so I have been using capo on the 5th......of course I could stick it anywhere
but it does seem to make it brighter being more trebley....if it's not a problem I will leave it there..........maybe.........it's unspecified in the rules at the begining........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:18:37
 
villain

Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

Malagueñas intro, Key E, Capo 2nd fret is what the singer wants, so just do it.


From Ron's post. so i think we gotta go 2nd fret for this one?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:20:45
 
Schalli

 

Posts: 94
Joined: Sep. 15 2010
From: Mannheim, Germany

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

Yeah, as far as I understood, it's a kind of "simulation" of a real situation. And the singer wants 2nd fret...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:25:45
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

Yeah, it seems the main point of this challenge is that the singer told you what he wants, and you have to do that. You can't tell your singer "well, I was working with it on the 5th fret with a female singer and it sounds reeeally pretty, can we do that instead?"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:25:57
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Maybe someday I'll buy one of those :p


Tony Arnold (a_arnold) sells beautiful hand-carved traditional cejillas. If you just want functionality, get the Dunlops. Easy to use and way more compact than those monster Shubbs. Pretty much every guitarist I saw in Andalucía this summer was using the Dunlops.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:27:28
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Adam

quote:

well, I was working with it on the 5th fret with a female singer and it sounds reeeally pretty, can we do that instead?"



Ok , no problem ....I've sacked the pretty girl singer and got a fat guy in instead ...2nd fret it is.... ...talk about suffering for your art.......

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 16:38:48
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to El Kiko

Interesting.. Maybe I should get a capo, seems like it will get me more girls..

On the other hand, more girls means less playing.. Ok, that's "zero fret" for me
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 20:17:08
 
vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Interesting.. Maybe I should get a capo, seems like it will get me more girls..

On the other hand, more girls means less playing.. Ok, that's "zero fret" for me


Just curious...how long have you been playing guitar? How long have you been playing flamenco? I've been playing guitar for 25 years and flamenco about a year. I used to be oddly resistant to the notion of a capo, but now I would consider it indispensable.

I sing, also (though not so much flamenco), and I'm generally pretty good at transposing songs into whatever key I need them to be in so that I can sing and play in either an open position or whatever my desired fretboard place might be. For 25 years, I never used a capo for anything I played before flamenco...I just transposed it.

It's tempting to think that you can do that with flamenco, but in my experience, a solea just will NEVER sound like a solea should sound if you are resolving to F# instead of E or if you are trying to play some fancy-pants 7-8-9 beat stuff in A# instead of F.

It's OK...really, it doesn't make you any less of a man or less of a player! I promise! H
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 9 2011 22:06:59
 
paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

oh - boy, I'm going to lose ;-(

Just did a quick test recording with GarageBand using the built in MAC mic. Oh boy, it's not sounding good. Playing was bad enough!

What are others doing for recording? What would be the best way to mic my guitar or just recording?

thanks

_____________________________

troutie
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 1:04:51
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to paul.troutfisher

the best way ...is the way for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,
do not rely on your technology....but on your ears and guitar........
for example .I move my right hand further forward for a continiuos rasguardo and back for the picado section ...............
So Im trying to get it all sounding good "live " as it were.
and that is the best thing to do.
if you have some friends to listen to you .ask them. even if they are not musicians .. not important ...they have ears and have an opinion....play it this way ....play it that way ..........or
record it , a few times..then be your own critic,,,,,,,,,,,
this is reality...messing about and developing your own style..which is something that suits you ......
as for recording ......all the work is already done , and thats the work .......bit of EQ for extra treble or bass...touch of reverb for the big sound ....and thats about it ...and thats about even tooo much..........
If you like it ....we will ...
if you dont.......................

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 1:38:28
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

I've been playing for almost 15 years and never needed a capo but Iam not saying that I wont use it to play flamenco. I see it as an indispensable tool for flamenco because of all the "droney" stuff that is made with the open strings so a capo is needed.

I just bought my flamenco guitar on april 1st and I've always played guitars with a pick (Dunlop jazz III) so my experience with right hand fingers is only when playing double bass.

Too busy at the moment practicing picado (i'll stop when it sounds like a pick) and rasgueado..

I think that after a week making adjustments to the guitar Iam finally happy with her and the capo is not the priority right now given that Iam such a newbie
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 2:51:15
 
villain

Posts: 82
Joined: Jul. 19 2009
From: Colorado

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to paul.troutfisher

quote:

What are others doing for recording? What would be the best way to mic my guitar or just recording?


I think there was a post on recording advice...anyone know the link?
I struggle with it too, but am using a decent mic (AT2020 usb) and have used garage band the last couple times... but it still sounds kinda weak. some of the guys in the competition get a great sound. I'd be curious as to what they do for a recording setup.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 2:52:07
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to villain

Part of the setup os gain staging. You should learn how to do it properly with your equipment. If that doesnt give you the sound you want, then you should use EQ.

For nylon guitars its a good starting point if you high pass the uneeded lows and boost the highs for a bit more clarity. For reverbs dont go too far beyond 10-15% wet signal... seriously, you'll regret it :p
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 2:59:44
 
vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

I've been playing for almost 15 years and never needed a capo but Iam not saying that I wont use it to play flamenco. I see it as an indispensable tool for flamenco because of all the "droney" stuff that is made with the open strings so a capo is needed.

I just bought my flamenco guitar on april 1st and I've always played guitars with a pick (Dunlop jazz III) so my experience with right hand fingers is only when playing double bass.

Too busy at the moment practicing picado (i'll stop when it sounds like a pick) and rasgueado..

I think that after a week making adjustments to the guitar Iam finally happy with her and the capo is not the priority right now given that Iam such a newbie


Good times! Flamenco is so fun and addictive to learn! Enjoy!!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 3:09:16
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to villain

quote:

I think there was a post on recording advice...anyone know the link?


There is tons of stuff here , and about ....

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=2160&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

but I still think that it is individual and you should experiment, make one short recording and tweak it in different ways to see which one you prefer.

Sometimes I think its best to mix it one day , but then go back and listen to it another day .. so you kinda have a fresh outlook on it.. a guy in a studio gave me this advice once and I think he may be right,,,,

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 10 2011 10:59:07
 
vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

Is this malaguena?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2011 18:03:28
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

quote:

ORIGINAL: vuduchyld

Is this malaguena?




yeah, play exactly that!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2011 18:22:41
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

quote:

Is this malaguena?


If you are talking about the Leucona based solo piece, it's only very loosely based on Andalucian Malagueña....it's really a Classical piece, but the Flamenco guitarists do it better.
Nobody has bettered Paco de Lucia's version way back in 1969 IMO, when he was no more than a kid...

This is how it sounded "live"...

www.btinternet.com/~flamenco/PdL1969.mp3


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2011 19:28:31
 
Jazzinahat

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 1 2011
From: North Essex, UK.

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Ron.M

Glad to make your acquaintance Ron.

Thanks for posting that recording. The composition by Lecuona started my interest in flamenco and to be honest, up to about a year ago, I thought flamenco guitar was all one big Malaguena gig!

I did post a question a few weeks ago, without reply, asking if anyone knew of a publisher of this music by Paco or, having done research, Grisha or similar??
It may be classical or old corn but I can't get enough of it.

Regarding the Challenge I have recorded my mp3 for submission. Where and how do I send it please???

I know I'm quick off the mark but the singer looks a little impatient and I'm not
sure he's willing to hang around for eight weeks while I feck around with the reverb.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 11 2011 21:34:47
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Jazzinahat

Hi Jazzinahat,

I think the first Flamenco guitarist to arrange that Leucona piece was Sabicas.

I'm not 100% sure if there was anything earlier. Perhaps Ricardo would know?

Anyway, I think Sabicas's version is the one that made it so popular and covered by guitarists from other genres like Jose Feliciano etc etc.

The piece is actually called "La Malagueña" and not "Malagueñas" as in Flamenco playing and would be of no use for accompanying cante.
It is purely a solo showcase piece.

(I have uploaded Sabicas accompanying Malagueñas singing in the Audio Uploads section so you can hear the difference.)



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2011 7:05:40
 
lsnyman

Posts: 120
Joined: Feb. 6 2009
 

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:


Interesting.. Maybe I should get a capo, seems like it will get me more girls..


Just win the challenge and you will get a free Cejilla (capo)! Easy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2011 5:21:51
 
Schalli

 

Posts: 94
Joined: Sep. 15 2010
From: Mannheim, Germany

RE: ****New Beginners Challenge Summ... (in reply to vuduchyld

quote:

quote:


Interesting.. Maybe I should get a capo, seems like it will get me more girls..


Just win the challenge and you will get a free Cejilla (capo)! Easy.


It's the Dico-Capo, so you can take it with you to the club to impress^^
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2011 9:18:16
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