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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contemporary Flamenco Guitar
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Ricardo
Posts: 14832
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to NormanKliman)
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quote:
About "añadido," I've thought about his definition and checked out four or five of the references he offers but I still don't understand what he's talking about. If he means the silence between beats 10 and 12, he hasn't defined the term that way. I think maybe on the second day of Prof Diaz appearance here, I called him out on that one and some other of his ideas I was skeptical of. It is clear to me, then and even more now based on his audio examples in the article, he is refering to what he thinks as an "extension" of the compas of bulerias by half (the half compas cut or add to a falseta or last line of cante). He must just discovered it on paco's cd and had an epiphany. So I pointed it out then that this was common and predated PDL (he laughed at me), but honestly a big red flag went up for me when he first said that, that told me he is not very experienced with cante. Anyway, the whole article that is "not opinion" as he claims but scientific proof of his ideas, seems almost the direct result of his first appearance here when Doit, myself, and a couple others said "hey wait, don't use paco's name to claim YOUR techniques and teaching....this is general techniques if not YOUR original technique". He never could accept that, and his paper here seems to be the "proof" of his rightness and our wrongness. Like I said, the red flag went up for me and I ignored him until certain things happend like attacking the playing of Morao and Mcguire etc, but kind of wished I kept ignoring cuz look where we are now.
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jun. 30 2009 2:49:23
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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i am curious, what paco would do or say to ruben, if he would read all that. and specially this: quote:
“This analysis leads to the conclusion that none of the guitar players above mentioned (the list of players Diaz mentions include Cepero, Sanulcar, Amigo, Pepe Habichuela, Nino de Pura, Gerardo Nunez, Tomatito, Nino Jero, Nino Josele, Diego del Morao, and Antonio Rey) have done any innovation or contribution in any field of flamenco guitar. Some of them have just taken what Paco de Lucía did long time ago without even realizing it thinking that they have done some novelty. Others just took for granted that the way they play the guitar is the way it has been always done. The most important point is that it is due to IGNORANCE and lack of an academic approach that they present themselves as innovators, original composers etc. This is a very serious situation, and it’s the main cause of the lack of creativity in flamenco music realm now a days.” would he be deeply stirred and feel flattered and thank ruben for the great analysis and for proving the "thruth", that he is the one and only ........ or .......would he just ring Ruben and tell him that he should stop writing about him immediately ?
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Date Jun. 30 2009 7:33:01
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Ricardo
Posts: 14832
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Arash)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash i am curious, what paco would do or say to ruben, if he would read all that. and specially this: quote:
“This analysis leads to the conclusion that none of the guitar players above mentioned (the list of players Diaz mentions include Cepero, Sanulcar, Amigo, Pepe Habichuela, Nino de Pura, Gerardo Nunez, Tomatito, Nino Jero, Nino Josele, Diego del Morao, and Antonio Rey) have done any innovation or contribution in any field of flamenco guitar. Some of them have just taken what Paco de Lucía did long time ago without even realizing it thinking that they have done some novelty. Others just took for granted that the way they play the guitar is the way it has been always done. The most important point is that it is due to IGNORANCE and lack of an academic approach that they present themselves as innovators, original composers etc. This is a very serious situation, and it’s the main cause of the lack of creativity in flamenco music realm now a days.” would he be deeply stirred and feel flattered and thank ruben for the great analysis and for proving the "thruth", that he is the one and only ........ or .......would he just ring Ruben and tell him that he should stop writing about him immediately ? Well think about it man. He once knocked out Al Dimeola for playing out of tune and having an attitude about it. What do YOU think he could do?
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jun. 30 2009 9:29:30
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash i am curious, what paco would do or say to ruben, if he would read all that. and specially this: quote:
“This analysis leads to the conclusion that none of the guitar players above mentioned (the list of players Diaz mentions include Cepero, Sanulcar, Amigo, Pepe Habichuela, Nino de Pura, Gerardo Nunez, Tomatito, Nino Jero, Nino Josele, Diego del Morao, and Antonio Rey) have done any innovation or contribution in any field of flamenco guitar. Some of them have just taken what Paco de Lucía did long time ago without even realizing it thinking that they have done some novelty. Others just took for granted that the way they play the guitar is the way it has been always done. The most important point is that it is due to IGNORANCE and lack of an academic approach that they present themselves as innovators, original composers etc. This is a very serious situation, and it’s the main cause of the lack of creativity in flamenco music realm now a days.” would he be deeply stirred and feel flattered and thank ruben for the great analysis and for proving the "thruth", that he is the one and only ........ or .......would he just ring Ruben and tell him that he should stop writing about him immediately ? Well think about it man. He once knocked out Al Dimeola for playing out of tune and having an attitude about it. What do YOU think he could do? ok, next question: what would we (and you) do, if Paco would join the foro and confirm that everything prof. ruben said is true and that we should all shut up? ehh....and Ron, honestly...would you ban him or at least restrict his foro privilages (like controling his messages before posting)? we would go down in history as the coolest foro in the world.......the flamenco guitar foro which banned Paco
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Date Jun. 30 2009 11:17:29
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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Sure Ron, but we also have the other "stories" and the behaviour from others like Eminem, Naomi Campbell, Puff Daddy, Tommy Lee, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Mike Tyson, Ernst August, Liam Gallagher, and .....and......and...the list is very very long.... so, yes, we have all kind of people out there...... and for sure, Paco belongs to the group you mentioned ,...
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Date Jun. 30 2009 12:26:00
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