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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3
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 RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to ToddK)
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PLUTO
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 6
swing/feel/aire 5
total=18
Stitch
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 6
swing/feel/aire 6
total=19
Aladdin
execution/technique/clarity 6
compas 6
swing/feel/aire 7
total=19
Mickey Mouse
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 8
swing/feel/aire 7
total=22
Chesire Cat
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 8
swing/feel/aire 7
total=22
Baloo the Bear
execution/technique/clarity 6
compas 5
swing/feel/aire 5
total=16
Peter Pan
execution/technique/clarity 8
compas 8
swing/feel/aire 9
total=25
Simba
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 9
swing/feel/aire 9
total=25
Uncle Remus
execution/technique/clarity 6
compas 5
swing/feel/aire 5
total=16
Pinnochio
execution/technique/clarity 7
compas 7
swing/feel/aire 6
total=20
Nemo
execution/technique/clarity 6
compas 5
swing/feel/aire 4
total=15
Captain Hook
execution/technique/clarity 8
compas 7
swing/feel/aire 8
total=23
I suppose my scores are a little bit generous but I think everyone deserves an OLÉ! To really assimilate the level of compás which good flamencos have, you need to spend some time in Spain, preferably in Juerga, or accompany a lot. Congratulations to all.
Sean
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Date Feb. 26 2009 4:51:25
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Guest
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to Florian)
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Hola
As a most reluctant judge, I should like to say that everyone who had the cojones to participate in the Intermediate Challenge is to be congratulated. Any of you who wish to visit me in Cádiz will be treated as royalty.
But, I have to say that the Challenge highlighted the importance of compás, especially in the falsetas , where it was most lacking.
Ricardo says "judging is hard for me because with students of my own it is all about compas"
Jason says, as well as giving much valuable advice, "If all of you start to work on grooving, all of the other issues will begin to resolve themselves."
"Groove" in Cádiz is "soniquete", the moment when the music takes on a life of its own, because all of the musicians are playing tightly together.
When I came here and tried to play for gitanos who are sobraos de compás such as Angel Pastor, I quickly learned that compás means much more than fancy falsetas, if you wish to be accepted.
I shall never forget the group composed by Aurora Vargas, Niño de Pura, Bobete and El Eléctrico, two of the best palmeros in all of flamenco. With these two and Aurora playing very fast contra, Daniel played his famously (infamously) long picados absolutely in time with the palmas and brought the audience to their feet.
To play like this is like aiming for the moon, but the flamencos can do it, so don´t lose hope, just keep your sights high and listen to a lot of good flamenco.
Suerte
Sean
PS Muchas gracias a Florian for organing everything
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Date Feb. 27 2009 8:04:38
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cathulu
Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Hey, now listen up. It is a lot of work to be the Lanterne Rouge, it is not something that just falls in your lap. So there needs to be a prize for that, no???
Also, I want to thank the judges for listening and giving your honest opinion. You guys are fantastic. In particular, I want to thank Jason McGuire - so I am going to sign-up for three months of your course. Jason your comments nailed it on the head for me and were very perceptive. That alone I shall consider my prize. I pushed my speed limit by 5% and the error count went up and it went all to hell, I knew I was in trouble with the counting and dividing. Believe it or not I sit in bed and just work my fingers while my foot is tapping to improve, so I plan to upload exactly 1 year from now with my new version plus more Moraito falsetas! If I still suck then I will throw my guitar away - darn I better not suck as I am getting a luthier one built as we speak.
HenryM, you got a good sound there buddy, your quality of rasgueo is really good and I am envious of it. I think you killed quite a few of the guys with your sound at the end, you would be well up there if that was only it. The rest is going to follow for you quickly I know. So I am still chasing you!
Congrats to the winners and runners-up. You guys really deserved it.
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Date Feb. 27 2009 16:12:23
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to Arash)
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quote:
without wanting to encourage you with some lies or something:
it requires a lot of courage and is really admirable that you participated in a challenge which is maybe beyond your current skills, rather than participating in a challenge which you could do easily or with less practice.
Once again, very wisely put, Arash. I also agree this Forum rocks and so does the incredible Camaraderie of the members. It was a pleasure and an honor to help. All have contributed generously, really.
Cathulu, my assistant Irene disagreed with the judges’ decision. Although not a Flamenco Guitar player, dancer or singer, trust me you’d prefer her to say Florian or Ricardo. Regardless, you topped me and many other who did not pick up the challenge. That list of 12 is the top of all those who did not participate or would have been 13th and under, below you. And, for the little it may count… I really think you are one cool dude, as a member of this forum and as a musician!
_____________________________
gj Michelob
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Date Feb. 27 2009 16:41:57
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rombsix
Posts: 7815
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to JasonMcGuire)
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HEY Y'ALL! 
I really enjoyed this flamenco challenge, and I think we should definitely have a monthly (and if that's too much - at least a bimonthly or trimonthly) INTERMEDIATE challenge. I guess that is what I would be most comfortable with considering the fact that I might NOT have enough time / energy to work on ADVANCED challenges with pretty-tough, complete pieces to prepare (ESPECIALLY that I am only 12 weeks away from a set of 6 HUGE final exams covering a whole year's worth of medical material).
Thank you to all the judges for taking time out to listen to the contestants' submissions and scoring them. Thank you to Florian and gj Michelob for organizing the whole event. Thank you to Jason McGuire for his generosity in offering the free lessons. Thank you to our anonymous, yet most generous, capo-offering friend. And thank you to all the contestants for making this challenge worth-while.
The fact that I was only 3 points away from coming in first place will only make me work doubly as hard next time. I did realize that my entry had all the flaws the judges pointed out in it. However, I just had to submit it considering that I had a bulky exam to sit for yesterday, which did not allow me to record any further takes of my submission. I guess I'll have even LESS time to prepare for the upcoming INTERMEDIATE challenge, but I guess that will only make it MORE of a challenge!
Congratulations to xirdneH_imiJ for coming in first place. I hope we'll hear MORE of your audio/video uploads in the future. I guess y'all cannot complain about my lack of uploads considering that I am managing to come up with a weekly video ever since I got some acceptable audio/video recording equipment to work with. I hope more of that will keep coming well into the future.
And as a closing note: I really have to thank the creators and moderators of this magnificent forum, without which none of this would have happened. I have been playing for about 8 years now, but my playing has been remodeled and well-directed massively by the fact that I read material posted on this forum, and get a chance to interact with great people like all of you here. I hope this only marks the beginning of Foro Flamenco becoming an even better-organized, well-run location where all flamenco enthusiasts, aficionados, and even pros can meet and interact to create an ambiance of musicality, education, and duende!
Gracias! 
_____________________________
Ramzi
http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Feb. 28 2009 0:21:20
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xirdneH_imiJ
Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to rombsix)
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thank you guys, judges, contestants!
it's been a great experience, and now i'm really motivated to improve further for the advanced challenge, in which i'll be expected to participate in :)
i think all of us who tried this have improved a lot in just weeks, as we've learned that we really have to record stuff to judge ourselves objectively...i was very dissatisfied with my recording for several reasons but i can now see that i'm not alone with the problem, we all trust our ears too much...and none of us is perfect with the compás...even if we understand it well, the fingers require more training to execute things the way we want...i really tried to aim for a good tone when playing the falseta, but it didn't come through...i found out a day after the deadline on the foro about my mic settings that they were the opposite that's recommended...i learned a lot...i've tried to play flamenco for about 3,5 years now and being recognized on this foro is really an honour and i thank all of you who listened to us and judged us...
thank you for your constructive criticism, you've really helped me and will be working on sorting out the issues in my playing...
a big Olé! to all of you!
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Date Feb. 28 2009 0:59:26
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Doitsujin
Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
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RE: INTERMEDIATE CHALLENGE ENTRIES Mp3 (in reply to Guest)
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Indeed a great challenge! Oley guys and gals!
Did I mention that I love stats?? Here we go! ;.)
Now the missing point of the i of the challenge! ;.) Because I have not much time.. I´ll describe all very shortly and sloppy with many writing mistakes.. Sorry. I´ll correct them later.
Here are some statistics which are maybe interesting! As we already know, Peter Pan is (Jimi Hen..xyz) is the winner, followed by Simba and Cheshire cat (A).
But when going a bit further into detail, the total points which were given by all judges were sometimes higher and sometimes a bit lower. So I calculated the median and the standard error of the difference of the given points. And we can clearly see, that Peter Pan, Simba and Cheshire cat are not judged significantly different (B). So, they share the first place in the perception of “nerds” haha… The numbers indicate the “real” placement of the challengers. I drew a red line to visualize who is significantly different (B).
Than I threw an eyeball on the judges. I changed their given points in the % of given points. I set 100% for the the highest given points for each judge individually to eliminate the fact, that some judges rated overall with higher points and others at a lower level. In other words, I normalized all judges to be able to compare the challengers more objectively. (By the way, I also did that for (B) and it of course doesn’t change anything, just the measuring unit from points to percentage.) And we can see clearly that the judges had more or less the same opinion about the challengers (E left side). Well.. the most disagreement occurred about Cheshire cat (E left side). I think there might be potential.. haha..The judges were all more or less in common about the 2 best challengers, Peter Pan and Simba. Also about Uncle Sam and Baloo… (sorry for that.. ;.))
Well.. so far. I wanted to know which judge thinks most often completely different than the other judges. So, I calculated the “level of agreement” between the judges (E right side) on the basis of the median of given points of all judges and sub ducted the particular points from each individual judge. The numerical value in the right sheet is 0 when a judge hite exactly the average opinion of all judges for each challenger and each category. Negative numbers show that a judge voted something worser than the average of all judges. And if somebody voted more positively, you see a positive number.
To have a better overview, I stained numbers which are 15% over or under the average green and red. That shows, which judge thought very different than the other judges… (You see the summary in D) (EDIT: SORRY THE HEADLINE OF D IS FALSE. IT SHOWS HOW OFTEN A UDGE VOTED OVER OR UNDER THE MEDIAN IN TOTAL. SO 0,0001% BETTER OR WORSER THAN THE AVERAGE ALREADY COUNTS.
What do we see:
Florian and Sean are nice people… they vote most often much much better than the other judges.. They are “pussy footing” good judges.. hehe ;.) ToddK, Norman and me are evil judges (or very critic and clear judges) ;.) We rate much lower than the average. Ron and Jason are maybe the best judges… they are completely tared. Seeing the things clear but aren’t too pedantic. The rest is also fine (D). (E right side only shows the details on which the diagram in D is based)
And the last diagram which I want to show is the overall generosity of each judge. In other words, how often they used the 10 points or always showing 5 or 6 as maximum. We can see,.. the judges used all more or less the same amount of points! They are not significantly different. BUT! But we see again… Florian and Sean are the significantly most generous judges (C indicated with an asterisk) They used most often high scores! (You pussys… hehehe)
Well.. I did a lot more detailed statistics on other things and on the 3 categories but that would be too much to show here. The most striking thing would be, that the judges disagreed most in the category AIRE. And.. Florian has problems with seeing when something isn’t played in compass.. (Sorry Florian.. that’s what the statistics say.. See it funny.. my post is just for amusement) (^____^) Hahaha...
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Date Feb. 28 2009 7:12:30
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) ...we need to prepare for the beginner challenge deadline, allow a couple of victory laps for the winner here, allow challengers a chance to respond and chat a litlle.. and do this allover again for beginners so we cant take much longher then that.. 
Of course the whole thing is not a perfect 235 till the end but it varies very little. 
coz if you're not it just shows you up ! 
