What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Full Version)

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rombsix -> What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 16 2006 17:15:15)

Hey everyone,

I am not sure about this, but I have a feeling as though most of you guys put Ottmar Liebert and his likes down. I mean, sure they are not "flamenco puro," but I mean, their rumbas have very cool melodies. I have listened to many rumbas, and the ones whose melodies stick in mind, and felt the most relaxing, are Ottmar's. What do you guys think of him, and what I said above?

Ramzi



XXX -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 16 2006 17:27:12)

Ottmar Liebert is a guitarist who plays nice little melodie lines, which can be very addictive. If you like Rumbas try some Gipsy Kings.
But tastes can vary... from person to person as well as from time to time... i.e. I myself didnt llisten to any Ottmar Liebert/Strunz Farah/ and all the other Nuvuuh Flamenco stuff since 2 years or so... its just boring. Gipsy Kings are a different category for me.

I think we had this discussion at least 5 times ...



Miguel de Maria -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 16 2006 21:36:21)

Ottmar? Not to my taste.

For me, the rumbas of Tonino Baliardo of the Gipsy Kings are the very pinnacle of the art. Supposedly he rips a lot of the falsetas from other guitarists and that's why they are so good! Anyway, he writes these beautiful melodic pieces and can really run the gamut from sweet to fiery. There is no one even close to my taste.



Doitsujin -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 16 2006 22:06:54)

I think Ottmar is a comercial composer. Also his Rumbas mostly contain only 5-10 different notes. Thats it. allways repeat. I dont like it. But people who dont know flamenco and only wanna have some nice noise in the background, like that. And it works for him. So why not. He does a good job and makes many people happy. If I could go the same way as him, I would do it. Not important that most of the flamenco lovers would talk bad about my stuff than. So, he just goes his way. And thats ok.



JBASHORUN -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 16 2006 23:22:39)

I never got into Ottmar. Don't mind Strunz & Farah or the Gypsy Kings though (EXCEPT BAMBOLEO!). I also like Rodrigo Y Gabriela as far as Nuevo Flamenco goes. Nuevo Flamenco is one of those things some people just hate. But IMO it helps if you're actually Spanish, otherwise everyone claims you're just trying to fake it...

Jb



Gummy -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 2:59:06)

At the risk of destroying any credibility I might have here and of being put on everyones hate list, I like Ottmar's music. It is calming and pleasant. Some is monotony to listen to, but not all of it. I began looking into flamenco to learn his and the Gypsy Kings techniques. Now I have discovered more. It would be awesome to be like him. Plenty of money, lots of fans, no other job etc. I could walk around barefoot and run a blog that people want to read.(his blog is so far left though I can barely make it through) There I go again alienating myself...



Ricardo -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 4:57:23)

I have a lot of CD's that I bought just to check out or recommended. Most I dont' listen to anymore, or only heard once, but I like to keep in my library to revisit someday. I have only taken back to the store 2 CD's in my life, and I am sad to say, one of them was Ottmar's. I gave him a second chance years later when I got my DVD player and only had a few movies. I still have that DVD and only watch it for fun with my friends when we want to torcher ourselves.[8D]

Best quote from the DVD "Michael Jordan calls it 'the zone'..."[8|]

He does his thing, what can I say beyond "I don't like it"? Just watch his bulerias with the guy playing electronic drum pads. They are in "the zone".[8|]

Ricardo



John O. -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 6:23:25)

It's like going onto a classical website and asking what they think of David Qualey...

I only know his Rumba music. I have nothing against it, but would never play one of his CD's at home. What Ricardo just described from the DVD sounds absolutely horrific though... [&:]



ToddK -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 7:02:13)

I think its more like going to a prestigious Art Convention
and asking what they think of "Dogs playing Poker"...

[:D]



Jon Boyes -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 8:32:30)

I don't like slagging other musicians but as you have gathered from the above posts, he is seen as something of a joke to be honest.

Two of my friends (who are also pro nylon string players) bought his first CD. They put it on to cheer themselves up whenever they feel down about the quality of their own music.

I play in a duo with one of them (Mark, who also is a foro member) and we decided to learn Barcelona Nights for a laugh. It took us about five minutes and, perhaps unsurprisingly, it goes down well with audiences. I find it pretty mind numbing and we wouldn't play it without our tongues firmly in our cheeks.

No, its not to my tastes. The other artists mentioned in this thread that also play nylon strung guitars instumental music (which some people like to squeze into the same genre) are all far superior IMO.



PacoPaella -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 9:02:22)

Yes indeed. Ottmar Liebert, Strunz, Gipsy Kings et al. are all useless, while the real deal is of course the flamenco guitarist. However the more serious and dedicated the flamenco guitarist is, the more important he is, too. Being dead serious, despising other musicians (particulary those sellout-have-fun-no-need-to-showoff-type) is essential part of being professional, with the exception of Paco, Vicente and Tomatito, who preferrably are personal friends with us. And of course we would just hate to be able to play such stuff ourselves (of course we couldeasily, if we really tried), we prefer to stuggle and fight our way through the hypermodern Pacoesque Solea at a party, just to have everybody look at us afterwards with this "is he done already? Now bring on the fun guys!" look in their eyes. Only then are we true to music.[:D]



John O. -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 12:13:32)

quote:

I think its more like going to a prestigious Art Convention
and asking what they think of "Dogs playing Poker"...


How about asking Marlon Brando what he thinks about Charles Nelson Reilly?

(Hehe, we could go on and on with this...)



Miguel de Maria -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 16:05:25)

PacoPaella: hilarious! :)



Mark2 -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 17 2006 16:17:17)

He does his thing, what can I say beyond "I don't like it"? Just watch his bulerias with the guy playing electronic drum pads. They are in "the zone".[8|]

Ricardo
[/quote]


You mean he learned to play bulerias? I saw a recent vid of him on you tube and his picado was a lot better than what I remembered from playing with him 15 years ago. I thought he was a decent improviser then, and playing with a famous guy while people were yelling out his name was cool. Another guitarist was playing with us and he was miles better than Ottmar, but Ottmar was famous, so he got the jaleos. I don't like his stuff and other than that one night, have never played his music or ever bought any of it. But the power he has to affect his audience is really really cool. I have looked at his website and it's full of fans who love his music. I don't get it, but how can that be a bad thing? If people prefer him to Tomatito, that's sad, but..........................



rombsix -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 18 2006 16:58:18)

Thanks for your feedback everybody.

Ramzi



Gitano -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 19 2006 1:52:33)

He will go down in history as The Worst Guitarist of the Century - even worse than Juan Martin!



Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 19 2006 5:04:08)

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ToddK -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 19 2006 5:49:37)

quote:

I think flamenco has closed some people's minds around here


Are you kidding or something?? You dont have to be a flamenco
afficianado to realize the crap Ottmar is pushing.

Being open minded doesnt mean we have to enjoy shallow music.

Ottmar is a childrens book. Vicente Amigo is War and Peace..

Some people want a heavier read than "the little engine that could"

That doesnt make them close minded.



TK



Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 19 2006 6:30:54)

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Ricardo -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 19 2006 9:27:49)

Wow man, Todd already talked good things about Mosaique. And the "rest of the world" that seems to like Ottmar does not include myself and the majority of flamenco aficionados, and even guitar enthusiasts for that matter. If you think that being an aficionado makes one closed minded, well, you have it backwards. Knowleadge and taste go hand in hand. Ingnorance is bliss. If anyone thinks mainstream music ($) that is light and fluffy needs defending from closed minds, what about ALL the unknowns or barely recognized players that really work their butts off and play with taste and heart but dont' get acknowleadged, or worse, accused of playing with "only technique"? Normally I am not into bashing any music someone might be into, but this Ottmar/Jmartin/GKings stuff is getting old real fast. Talking about how un-authentic they are compared to Agujetas is pointless, and they certainly don't need any defense for the sake of their reputation and careers.

ricardo



Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 19 2006 13:56:36)

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JBASHORUN -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 19 2006 19:03:18)

Here's one "Nuevo Flamenco" song that I DO like- its called "Classical Soul" by Oscar Lopez. I would be grateful for any opinions on this song (from a Flamenco perspective) just so I can tell what my taste is like!

http://media.putfile.com/Classical-Soul

Cheers,

Jb



n85ae -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 19 2006 20:43:31)

From reading this thread, it sounds like a lot of guitar players with internet access from work, and not enough work to do ... Like my Mom used to say when I was a kid, "why don't you go find something to do, instead of sitting around complaining about being bored".

There's my opinion!

How about somebody tell me a better way to do an Abanico?



Doitsujin -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 21 2006 12:18:16)

Two days ago I played a gig with a friend in a restsurant. There was a vernisage and we the musical background.^^ We spoke to an older man and he told us that he has a house in Spain and many good guitarrist and singer were his guests.
Then he told us that he loves good flamenco-guitarmusisc and asked..."what is the name of the german supreme player"??

"Ottmar Liebert"?

"YES! UUUUH damn he plays great flamenco!!!"

"eeh.. yes shure...[&:]"

Now I wanna know which great flamencoguitarrists were his guests...[&:]



koella -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 21 2006 12:24:34)

Allright, so what kind of music did YOU play that night.
Was it PDL ? Or maybe some Nunez buleria to stimulate the guests apetite and conversation?

[:D]



Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 21 2006 15:43:36)

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cneberg -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 21 2006 18:26:14)

Break his fingers!?!?



sonikete -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Oct. 30 2006 4:35:31)

quote:

Nuevo Flamenco is one of those things some people just hate.


The reaction mainly comes from them using the word "flamenco" to market their music despite the fact that what they play has very little to do with flamenco, when at the same time there are many guitarists barely surviving playing the real thing.

And not only do they claim it´s flamenco, it´s the new improved version even, that pisses me off to the point that i dont even want to give them a chance.

If they called it anything else i might have at least a little respect for it.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 4:41:11)

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Stoney -> RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (Nov. 13 2009 10:27:15)

Wow, this is such a great thread and I just love the whole controversy. Here's my 2 cents.
Note: I've heard some of the music the members here are capable of and I'm not nearly there at all, especially on my 80 Dollar mexican classical. If I played as well as some of you I'd probably slag Ottmar too.

First off, Like many artists, Ottmar has just released WAY too much material that sounds the same as all his classic early recordings. The same could be said for Gypsy Kings.

Let's however give credit where credit is due. Of all the "Nuevo Flameno" artists out there, at least Ottmar put down his pick and plays with his fingers. He has quite a solid right hand. If his style is not your cup of tea, so be it. Jesse Cook, Strunz and Farah, etc. etc. don't even bother. For that stuff I'd rather listen to Carlos Santana.

If you check out youtube Ottmar has some more recent vids filmed since he lost his hair. The band is paired down to just three, cajon, bass and guitar. Ottmar does a great job revamping some of his better known work, managing to play the melodies while comping the chords, slipping them in where he can. I can respect that.

I once has a conversation with a very religious person and I asked them the following question.
"What is worse, an extremely religious person who sins or an Athiest who sins?"

Well, in my opinion - at least the athiest isn't a hypocrite. I don't think Ottmar claims to be a pure flamenco (I could be wrong there) but as long as he doesn't market himself as a Pure Flamenco I see no harm. Just like the Blues Brothers who brought the blues to millions who then went out and discovered BB King and Buddy Guy, Ottmar has brought this music into the mainstream. Many folks will go on to discover Sabicas and Paco De Lucia because of their appreciation of Ottmar's stuff.

I'm neither for or against. I am sure however that a ton of people will slag him because they need to be seen as cool by the real flamenco folks.

The thing I do hate about Ottmar is when he takes a typical Flamenco style and then just doesn't bother to play the compas or style at all and just makes some kind of melange / fusion dreck. He should stick to Rumbas, it's what he does best.

Finally, I doubt Ottmar will do anything else in his career that will have the impact of his first few albums. But then again neither will the Gypsy Kings.

Stoney



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