aaron peacock -> RE: What's up with this newfangled culture of "interpreting" others intrepretations? (Dec. 2 2020 18:38:37)
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quote:
Flamenco is not an improvisational art at all. Only by mistakes or accidents. The most important thing for a guitarist is to sound flamenco, period. Same for singers. If you have learned HOW to do that with your OWN falsetas, or THINK you have, well good for you. For sure there is someone out there that doesn’t think your falsetas work at all. When you have other flamencos using YOUR falsetas then yes, maybe what you are doing is valid. I will say that again...when OTHER PEOPLE PLAY YOUR FALSETAS....OTHER PEOPLE....PLAYING YOUR FALSETAS. So, improvisation is one thing, and I'm not referring to improvisation at all, if you read what I wrote. I speak of the palo itself as being THE musical piece. La Tumbona is a Buleria, and contains falsettas PDL developed and used during his career. You are surely an expert is his career more than I. I've seen that here on the foro. No doubts about that. An honest, perhaps stupid, question: I want to know if you are saying that ALL of PDL's falsettas are basically derivatives of falsettas others played before him? Are those not his falsettas? Are they slightly derivative? Are there "families" of related falsettas that can be mutually inspired? These are earnest questions with no snark nor sarcasm. What is the way flamencos consider the body of falsettas and how do you know if you are not accidentally copying someones etc? These are real questions that I've not seen discussed. Do families share falsettas, is quoting a falsetta in a modified context a "thing" as in jazz? etc. Illuminate these areas please! What level of derivative is considered acceptable in ones original falsettas? Is one permitted to use falsettas from a locale if one is from a locale or barrio? Can one use ones fathers falsettas as-is? quote:
It is a totally backwards concept and to criticize people putting in the work is totally ridiculous. AT once you ask in another thread if aficionadas actually have THE MENTAL STORAGE CAPACITY to recognize falseta origins from history, and over here CRITICIZE the very deep and involved activity of do just that. No, sorry, it’s time to ERASE that nonsense and learn to accept that it’s hard work involved and time is short. On this other thread: I've asked is there is an etymology of falsettas, a study of the origins and temporal passage of falsettas through history, or at least recorded history. I ask this respectfully fully expecting that 1) there may be, as this community is dedicated and contains much expertise. 2) there may be common knowledge and banter among a global fan public since the dawn of the internet that may not be formalized, but that people refer to things and appear to have a "in-group common knowledge" of things. This stuff gets lost as people die. at no point do I 1) question folks mental capacities, other than presuming great mental capacities, that I queried. 2) suggest that being capable of remembering hours of flamenco precisely as recorded was in any way easy or not a worthy task. It's what classical musicians strive for. Grisha is precisely not puzzling to me this way, in that he plays a classical repertoire of flamenco, in some sense. I don't suggest that he needs to be a composer in order to be a good musician. I see this as a transformation from a previous role of accompanying singers and dancers and knowing the palos and the general harmonic formats/shapes, into this CLASSICAL Solo Guitar Performance Art. Is this true? What about flamenco composers and how is this to be approached at ALL, in your opinion? We respect our forebears. Some are considered greats. Are you not a fan of certain of these greats? Are your greats not known for their original compositions? This indicates that Composer is the legacy PDL leaves strongest, as others surely could have played his pieces better than even he could, even as the amazing player he was. I thoroughly agree with your statements about ones falsettas standing the test of time or not, being copied by others, or not. I thoroughly disagree with your statements about earning respect by playing others pieces well. I respect many musician/composers in flamenco who are perhaps incapable of the technical prowess required to do what Samuelito can do, but nonetheless have music (not always radically original! but always their rendition, accidentally so or otherwise) I enjoy. My entire point was rather simple. I saw this as a modern phenomena, a result of the youtube instagram world in which a guy reviewing plugins gets 20k likes and some amazing band gets 20 likes. If you watch the Antonio Rey interview that Wilson posted there's a clear separation of the roles of composer and performer, and he iterates a lot of what you speak of, in terms of "you have to show up to play flamenco to support flamenco singers and dancers" and the need to do a certain job and fill a certain role. I like your original Bulerias on youtube, Ricardo, it's soulful so nobody is picking on you... i can't even imagine what it's like to try to pay rent playing gigs related to Flamenco and the things one would need do be prepared to do. I half expected you to say "yeah man, it's a rough circuit these days" Getting Rock gigs only pays with cover bands these days, I'm fully aware of the state of originals in rock and the market... In this sense, Nostalgia is deadly! nostalgia has killed any public demand for new rock. Play Nirvana, man. What's actually at play here? PS: Ricardo, that post you made on the "what is modern" thread is dense and rich and precisely full of the lore... THANK YOU I'll study that for awhile. The link in that post is relevant here also.
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