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Paco's Conde   You are logged in as Guest
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MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

Paco's Conde 

It seems like Paco has changed his Conde to a newer one (at least in the 2004 Concerts). Does anyone know what year it is and from which Conde shop?

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 19:22:46
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

Yeah, I dont' recognize it. Probably it is an old one that we never saw him use. I will ask around and try to see it up close in Februrary. Actually, the orange top one he was using in 2004, was the same as the older one, but refinished on top. The sides and backs are the same, same rosette, but the color is different and the scratches repaired. But starting last year, the guitar he has is more yellowish and the wood on the sides looks different. This is the one I mean:
http://www.flamenco-world.com/magazine/fotos/calendario2006/indice07122005.htm

I will see for myself in 2 months!

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 19:43:52
 
MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to Ricardo

You are right. The 2004 one was more orange coloured than pictured one but cleaner than the famous scratched one he use to use in the past.

This one looks like one of those Felipe shop ones??

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 20:15:46
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

quote:

This one looks like one of those Felipe shop ones??


They are all based on the same design plan that Sobrinos de Esteso used back in the 60s. You can't really tell unless you see the label.

Here is P. Cepero playing a Conde that looks like the ones you see nowadays, but this was back in the mid 70's.

Looks and sounds a lot like mine from 2000:
http://michaelk101.com/todd/toddmp3/Ricardopdlfast.wmv

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 21:02:18
 
MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to Ricardo

Wow, that is excellent. What year/shop is your guitar?

Amazing.

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 21:23:55
 
nickeyg

 

Posts: 56
Joined: Jun. 16 2005
 

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

I thought I read somewhere that he was getting his old one touched up a bit.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 22:03:39
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

I believe his 'useual' Conde was from Gravina 7 shop because that is where the Conde lineage was in the late 60's. This shop still advertises as being the supplier of Paco's guitar. Felipe V is now recognised as being the place but sometimes I wonder
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2006 23:21:29
 
MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to Jim Opfer

I know that his initial one was from Gravina 7 made most likely by Faustino himslef. My question is on the new one that he is using. It looks like the ones made in Felipe V shop.

Look at this picture (hope it works)

http://www.elconfidencial.com/fotos/cultura/200507206Lucia_20050720_t.jpg

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 0:55:01
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

The coloring is very much like this guitar he used back in 1992


But I can't see the rosette clear, it could be different.

This guitar he used back in 04, and was the one that was repaired I am pretty sure, judging by the wood pattern on the sides:



Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 3:44:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to Ricardo

Just noticed this vid. You can see the guitar pretty clear here. Paco is getting older for sure, and poor Montse is going deaf!

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 9:34:34
 
flamencoguru

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

I can tell you as a fact that Paco does not play a Conde from the Felipe V shop. I heard this from Juan Estrada, which is Paco's personal assistant. The guitar he has been playing in concert is the same one he has used since about 1977 or 1978. The only thing is that is different is that the guitar was refinished in 2003. The guitar is from the Gravina shop that Faustino made. This guitar originally was his brother's, Ramon de Algeciras. This guitar is actually is a replacement for another negra he had but was unfortunately stolen. Ramon had it sitting in a closet and never played it because he said that was was very uncomfortable to play (Ramon told me this personally this summer when I was with him). Paco played it and loved it. From what Ramon said is that the guitar doesn't sound very good but Paco some how makes it sound (He could probably make a 2x4 with strings sound good). The guitar is also a 670mm. It's a monster size. I think Gerardo Núñez also plays a guitar that is a 670mm.

Un saludo, Errol
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 12:28:32
 
David83

Posts: 28
Joined: Nov. 29 2006
 

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

Errol's right; moreover, I spoke with Vicente Carrillo (PDL guitars luthier) last year, and he told me that guitar was the same as Paco had been using for years, but that he re-varnished it in 2003, because the top was a bit damaged.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 12:45:25
 
mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

auu! whatever happened to paco.. he looks like peter stormare.
(john abruzzi, for those of you watching prison break..)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 13:11:45
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to MKodji

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 13:25:55
 
ykabban

 

Posts: 251
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
 

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to flamencoguru

Hmmm.....it's of no consequence, but this is a different guitar. I saw him ~3 years ago, he was using the same one he'd been using since I was born, but it was refinished in the burnt orange color, and the tuning machines were replaced with those Gotoh aluminum roller deals. I have a pic from the front row.
This guitar's rosette is completely different, but looking at the headstock shape you can tell it's older, and likely from the Gravina shop......
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 13:59:31
 
MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to flamencoguru

Thanks for all the inof. Now we get it. The one used in the 2004 concert was the same Conde used since 1977-78 but refinished.

But how about this guitar?
http://www.elconfidencial.com/fotos/cultura/200507206Lucia_20050720_t.jpg

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 14:48:39
 
flamencoguru

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

Very good question...... I don't have the answer.

I'll have to get back to you on that one.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 15:32:56
 
el ted

 

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003
 

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

The guitar in the photo is the one he borrowed off me last thursday.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 15:36:43
 
MKodji

Posts: 50
Joined: Jul. 18 2006
From: NY

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to el ted

No wonder...I knew that sound from somewhere...

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 16:01:38
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

im sure Montese only had a bad monitor and didn´t hear her self good

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Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 16:22:37
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to flamencoguru

quote:

Very good question...... I don't have the answer.

I'll have to get back to you on that one.


If Paco is anything like most other flamenco players, he probably has a few Conde's lying around at home. I know there is a picture of Paco in a suite and tie with Manolo sanlucar next to him and Isidro, and Paco has a Conde I have never seen before. Checking out vid footage you saw him in La Barrosa with the peg head blanca, in Francisico Sanchez with an Orange blanca at his Mexican casa, then there is the trio footage with McLaughlin and Al Dimeola where he has the guitar you see him with in the Saura movie "Carmen". That looks like the same guitar Ramon had backing Paco up in Entre Dos Aguas where Paco had a stripped coat. Then there is a blanca with white tap plates he recorded with Camaron, you see them in the studio. None of those guitars are the main one he used all those years that had a scratch, finally was repaired as you said. But the latest guitar is a totally different color to my eyes, just look at the last live vid I linked.

I would not be surprised if he had a few more Conde's lying around at home, that we have never seen before.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 16:32:05
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

quote:

Look at this picture (hope it works)


The rosette on this guitar looks like Felipe V, the same rosette as Tomatito's guitar.
However, most important thing to see is the head.
There is a difference between Gravina headstock and Felipe V.
Gravina medio luna is more pronounced and better defined in it's shape.
Felipe headstock is less sculped.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 16:55:05
 
flamencoguru

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to MKodji

Yeah, you're definitely right about him having a few Condes. I've seen him 4 times, once in Sevilla and three times in Miami and he's always used the same Conde.

I'm sure he had probably around 20-40 guitars, perhaps some that he has never even played from various luthiers around the world.

Un saludo, Errol
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 16:56:13
 
Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: Paco's Conde (in reply to flamencoguru

I've heard that story Errol is sharing, and I was once given the impression that the one that was stolen from him in the 70's is the guitar in this video...



Ya, we can be certain that the one he plays now is completely different, and looks also relatively newly made too. If you search the words Paco and Wynton on google, you'll see some pictures of him playing with Wynton Marsalis at the Vitoria Jazz Fest this summer with this new guitar. Wish I knew more about that concert or had some audio of it, sounds very intriguing.

Oh, FYI, in promo photos for his upcoming North American tour, he is holding an "Andalusian Guitar", which Paco endorses in Canada anyway, don't know about the states. Very old woods, light guitars with extreme low action just as Paco prefers.

Con

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2006 17:00:27
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