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This was posted on another forum and I thought it was worth channeling into the foro.
*Dkmd* said:
quote:
Since Foro Flamenco is not accepting new membership I have a question that I've been burning to ask: Why buy a modern Conde? For the amount of money to buy a decent model one could easily buy a new luthier made guitar ( or a used one for that matter and save some change). Are they really that good to be at the same price points as some of the luthiers of this forum and the Foro? They are "factory" guitars if I'm not mistaken. I get the appeal that Paco and many other flamenco greats played them in the past so there is that. Maybe I'd understand if I got my hands on one but given the option I'd go with a nice luthier made blanca from someone who has years of experience. Any die hard Conde players out there care to shed some light on thee?
Posts: 16529
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Someone wonders: Why Conde? (in reply to Fawkes)
Well, the person is clearly ignorant of the whole 3 houses story, and as I have been saying for years, relying on the hearsay myth about the TOP LINE guitars being built the same as the STUDENT GUITARS in factories. This is the crux of the issue that perpetuates. As of 2014-2026 I still stand by the Felipe jr. crespo Conde (that I don't even own, so no personal bias) as superior, and of course USED guitars need to be tried/tested first. As we saw with Luciano's journey recently he has circled back to an old Conde after years and his explanation for that is the same one I have given. The type of instrument they make has a rapid response and dry pure fundamental resonance that FAST playing and using close microphones on stage requires. "Better" more resonant instruments tend to bottom out with hard playing and have too many frequencies in need of suppression on stage that otherwise sound great in your bedroom or studio. History repeats itself.
Lastly the old historic recordings of N. Ricardo, Melchor, Manuel morao, Cepero, and PDL, are mostly using the old Condes, so that dry pure fundamental sound (vs say a resonant Barbero or Archangel or Ramirez of Sabicas and other solo players) is in many aficionado ears as THE desired sound for CANTE. That is another huge reason the Conde became a standard of the pros.
Feel free to cut and paste this response for the guy.
Posts: 3060
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Someone wonders: Why Conde? (in reply to Ricardo)
Hang on what?
quote:
Why buy a modern Conde? For the amount of money to buy a decent model one could easily buy a new luthier made guitar ( or a used one for that matter and save some change). Are they really that good to be at the same price points as some of the luthiers of this forum and the Foro? They are "factory" guitars if I'm not mistaken.
hang on what? Modern Condes are factory built?
Am I missing something? or I'm more ignorant than this poster?
RE: Someone wonders: Why Conde? (in reply to Fawkes)
This whole thing about "who built what" is the type of hand wringing common in foreign flamenco forums.
A good Conde is a great instrument (actually incredible - they are close to perfection), a bad Conde is a bad one, this applies to any and all guitars even "hand-made" ones, its an art not a science, even 2 guitars built side-by-side by the same hands with the same wood will not sound the same.
As long as it fits your hands and produces the sound you like who cares who made it??
There are professional guitarists out there (Manuel Valencia, Antonio Higuero etc) who had mid 2000's Felipe V Conde's and they sound great, so again this generality that Condes from this era sound better than that era is 3rd hand info from 4th hand sources.
And usually such myths begin from someone who tried out ONE or TWO condes from a specific epoch or shop and then went on some internet forum and pronounced that ALL condes from said epoch or shop are good or bad or average. Any mildly logical individual would see the fallacy in that.
Let your ears and hands do the deciding
The other day I talked to a guy who had alot of opinions about every guitar maker out there and what was good or bad, in the end I asked him what he played and it was some $200 guitar from a factory I have never even heard of.
So opinions are generally worthless (unless they coincide with your own opinions)
RE: Someone wonders: Why Conde? (in reply to Fawkes)
Conde, Ramirez, Gerundino made some of the best sounding guitars ever. Period. Some guitars branded Conde, Ramirez and Gerundino are undoubtedly disappointing. The factory made guitars refer to a specific time and specific shops in time. Nowadays things are different even though I don’t think the 3 brands are leaders as they used to be anymore.
Posts: 16529
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Someone wonders: Why Conde? (in reply to Echi)
Felipe conde crespo has a one year waiting list which is only going to get worse. If that is not a "leader" then what is really? Now, he is accused of not knowing how to build a guitar, aka a FRAUD that outsources and pretends to build, and this by his own uncle and cousin (they affirmed Adalid in a chat to ME), which I don't believe and personally think is an awful myth to spread....unless this is TRUE in which case it should affect both the pricing and wait list. So this business of "who cares, they are good guitars anyway" I just don't understand. Ramirez 3 was built by Martinez, Valbuena, Contreras, Manzanero, Bernabe, etc., Gerundino by who knows....It is similar to this bizarre thing of Celine Dion and others...."OMG she hit the note, it is amazing!!!!!" after lip synching, playing on the drama of her illness.
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