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Posts: 3046
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
practicing slow / aches
When practicing a falseta/ piece slowly how do you deal with the added aches and pains in your hands when you have to hold a barre, or awkward chord for much longer than you would if you were playing it a higher tempo?
You know, I say to myself right I'm gonna slow my metronome right down and work on getting this really clean. but then im now holding this series of barre positions for 3 seconds each instead of 0.5 of a second (for eg)
I guess the answer will be the same as, relax? less pressure? etc...but that doesnt necesarily do it for me.
Is there anything else that helps in this situation?
if you're having problems holding it for 3 seconds, hold it for 30 seconds. Then 3 seconds will become the new normal. No joke, this is what I do for these type of problems :)
RE: practicing slow / aches (in reply to metalhead)
quote:
if you're having problems holding it for 3 seconds, hold it for 30 seconds. Then 3 seconds will become the new normal. No joke, this is what I do for these type of problems :)
Says the guy who uses a block of American cheese as a golpeador.
Stu, I have a really good solution for that problem, actually. Just don't practice. Simple!
Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.
In my case, if my hand aches I explore if it gives information on how to improve technique. And aside from technique, in my experience overly sustained practice repeating the exact same thing isn't always helpful to learning.
Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.
Wasnt his suggestion a joke? (With an element of truth?)
I am interested in optimising technique.
So holding that chords for 30 secs?? I see your logic.... but now i get 30 seconds of pain! Tbf I think it's just ache, not pain... so not doing any damage... so perhaps that's a good idea. I'll try
Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.
Wasnt his suggestion a joke? (With an element of truth?)
I am interested in optimising technique.
So holding that chords for 30 secs?? I see your logic.... but now i get 30 seconds of pain! Tbf I think it's just ache, not pain... so not doing any damage... so perhaps that's a good idea. I'll try
Hmm, I don't know, at least try first to identify why you need to press so hard that you get fatigued very quickly. It is possible to do barre without the thumb pressing back, for example (as an exercise in finding the optimum way to do it with the minimum pressure required); also see if you are pressing all six strings with equal pressure, as opposed to only the strings you need to press. Something like that. I have a vague recollection of writing about this in a thread here, in more detail, along with others.
So here is the solution. Use a mute under the strings at the bridge. This effectively squelches the sustain quality of the guitar and allows you to focus on rhythm only, of both hands. PDL famously using this to practice in the hotel room interviews. Because there is zero sustain of any note or chord, you will instinctively release the pressure of the left hand that is not required anyway. To the point you might not even use any fretting pressure at all.
Only after you have the required passages executed AT TEMPO will you remove the mute and apply appropriately the required left hand pressure to sustain any notes or chords required, and there the problem is eliminated. In my youth I actually injured my left hand from slow playing and holding barres unnecessarily long so, unless you want to lower your action, people should avoid pretending that muscling through this thing will develop some magic technique skill that pros must have. There is no such thing (using the arm and such as is often explained as a fix is far away from the true problem with squeezing too hard).
Playing Adagio tempo pieces that use held barres is a legitimate problem for which I would recommend the opposite...practice these passages very fast to get through them or again use the mute with metronome for practice and only allow that prolonged squeeze for performance. In addition PDL admitted the home practice guitars will be set up easier (lower action) than the stiff stage guitar that is needed for projection and response to the more aggressive playing caused by adrenaline. So use two guitars, one easy for practice and then the stiffer guitar only use it for up to tempo pieces.
Try using the weight of your left arm as the source of left hand finger pressure, rather than pressing with the thumb. The left arm's center of gravity is behind the fretboard. If the left arm hangs freely from the shoulder, it swings to move the hand toward the fretboard. Use light pressure of the thumb just to locate the left hand, not to power the fingers.
Posts: 3046
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: practicing slow / aches (in reply to kitarist)
Thanks all,
I think i misrepresnted my problem to be honest.
I'm not sure its a matter of pressure (like the classic beginner problem with playing barre chords in general) but on further examination, standard barre chords dont really cause me much issue even if holding for some time.
It's more unusual chords (sometimes barred sometimes not) and also ridiculous stretches.
One in particular in Gerardo Nunezes Trafalgar from the opening libre passage
2nd fret A string 5th fret on G and B 7th fret on high e
I mean this must be a strength, technique, flexibilty issue?
also a vicente amigo chord comes to mind to from maestro sanlucar.
neither of these 2 seem to be a pressure issue. more to do with the awkward stretch/fingering.
Anyways. Ricardo yes, I'm usually playing witha spongy mute these days anyway. (maybe a little too often?)
quote:
Playing Adagio tempo pieces that use held barres is a legitimate problem for which I would recommend the opposite...practice these passages very fast to get through them or again use the mute with metronome for practice and only allow that prolonged squeeze for performance.
Thanks this is interesting. I tried it immediately whilst playing Sevilla (nunez) the 1st melodic falseta after the intro motif. and i felt benefits
neither of these 2 seem to be a pressure issue. more to do with the awkward stretch/fingering.
Right. Well for those things try the capo for practice to get used to the stretches. Then move back one position at a time from what was easy or comfortable. Your hand will adapt gradually until you can do the full stretch. This partly why Gerardo would use capo 3 for the lower level class and no capo in the advanced class. I have a 670mm guitar and 650mm and never noticed the big difference doing things with capo. It is only without the capo that I can really feel that bigger guitar is harder doing stretches like you describe. If I am working on a new thing with big stretch, I don't use that 670 guitar. But after I am good with it on the smaller guitar I can easily adapt to the bigger scale. But if only using one guitar, the capo is the trick to these problems.
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