practicing slow / aches (Full Version)

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Stu -> practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 7:49:24)

When practicing a falseta/ piece slowly how do you deal with the added aches and pains in your hands when you have to hold a barre, or awkward chord for much longer than you would if you were playing it a higher tempo?

You know, I say to myself right I'm gonna slow my metronome right down and work on getting this really clean. but then im now holding this series of barre positions for 3 seconds each instead of 0.5 of a second (for eg)

I guess the answer will be the same as, relax? less pressure? etc...but that doesnt necesarily do it for me.

Is there anything else that helps in this situation?



metalhead -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 11:11:35)

if you're having problems holding it for 3 seconds, hold it for 30 seconds. Then 3 seconds will become the new normal. No joke, this is what I do for these type of problems :)



rombsix -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 12:44:35)

quote:

if you're having problems holding it for 3 seconds, hold it for 30 seconds. Then 3 seconds will become the new normal. No joke, this is what I do for these type of problems :)


Says the guy who uses a block of American cheese as a golpeador. [:D][8D]

Stu, I have a really good solution for that problem, actually. Just don't practice. Simple! [:D][8D]



orsonw -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 15:22:01)

Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.

In my case, if my hand aches I explore if it gives information on how to improve technique. And aside from technique, in my experience overly sustained practice repeating the exact same thing isn't always helpful to learning.



Stu -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 16:36:57)

quote:

Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.


Wasnt his suggestion a joke? (With an element of truth?)

I am interested in optimising technique. [&:]

So holding that chords for 30 secs?? I see your logic.... but now i get 30 seconds of pain! Tbf I think it's just ache, not pain... so not doing any damage... so perhaps that's a good idea. I'll try



kitarist -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 17:08:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

quote:

Ramzi's suggestion is good. If you're not open to optimising technique, then maybe just don't practice that section for too many repetitions.


Wasnt his suggestion a joke? (With an element of truth?)

I am interested in optimising technique. [&:]

So holding that chords for 30 secs?? I see your logic.... but now i get 30 seconds of pain! Tbf I think it's just ache, not pain... so not doing any damage... so perhaps that's a good idea. I'll try


Hmm, I don't know, at least try first to identify why you need to press so hard that you get fatigued very quickly. It is possible to do barre without the thumb pressing back, for example (as an exercise in finding the optimum way to do it with the minimum pressure required); also see if you are pressing all six strings with equal pressure, as opposed to only the strings you need to press. Something like that. I have a vague recollection of writing about this in a thread here, in more detail, along with others.



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 17:18:34)

So here is the solution. Use a mute under the strings at the bridge. This effectively squelches the sustain quality of the guitar and allows you to focus on rhythm only, of both hands. PDL famously using this to practice in the hotel room interviews. Because there is zero sustain of any note or chord, you will instinctively release the pressure of the left hand that is not required anyway. To the point you might not even use any fretting pressure at all.

Only after you have the required passages executed AT TEMPO will you remove the mute and apply appropriately the required left hand pressure to sustain any notes or chords required, and there the problem is eliminated. In my youth I actually injured my left hand from slow playing and holding barres unnecessarily long so, unless you want to lower your action, people should avoid pretending that muscling through this thing will develop some magic technique skill that pros must have. There is no such thing (using the arm and such as is often explained as a fix is far away from the true problem with squeezing too hard).

Playing Adagio tempo pieces that use held barres is a legitimate problem for which I would recommend the opposite...practice these passages very fast to get through them or again use the mute with metronome for practice and only allow that prolonged squeeze for performance. In addition PDL admitted the home practice guitars will be set up easier (lower action) than the stiff stage guitar that is needed for projection and response to the more aggressive playing caused by adrenaline. So use two guitars, one easy for practice and then the stiffer guitar only use it for up to tempo pieces.



rombsix -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 5 2026 19:45:07)

I was totally joking, Stu, but I guess perhaps I'm so wise that even my silly jokes have pearls hidden within. [:D]

Great advice from everyone else on here!



Richard Jernigan -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 6 2026 0:25:55)

Try using the weight of your left arm as the source of left hand finger pressure, rather than pressing with the thumb. The left arm's center of gravity is behind the fretboard. If the left arm hangs freely from the shoulder, it swings to move the hand toward the fretboard. Use light pressure of the thumb just to locate the left hand, not to power the fingers.

RNJ



Stu -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 7 2026 13:06:06)

Thanks all,

I think i misrepresnted my problem to be honest.

I'm not sure its a matter of pressure (like the classic beginner problem with playing barre chords in general) but on further examination, standard barre chords dont really cause me much issue even if holding for some time.

It's more unusual chords (sometimes barred sometimes not) and also ridiculous stretches.

One in particular in Gerardo Nunezes Trafalgar from the opening libre passage

2nd fret A string
5th fret on G and B
7th fret on high e

I mean this must be a strength, technique, flexibilty issue?


also a vicente amigo chord comes to mind to from maestro sanlucar.

neither of these 2 seem to be a pressure issue. more to do with the awkward stretch/fingering.

Anyways. Ricardo yes, I'm usually playing witha spongy mute these days anyway. (maybe a little too often?)
quote:

Playing Adagio tempo pieces that use held barres is a legitimate problem for which I would recommend the opposite...practice these passages very fast to get through them or again use the mute with metronome for practice and only allow that prolonged squeeze for performance.


Thanks this is interesting. I tried it immediately whilst playing Sevilla (nunez) the 1st melodic falseta after the intro motif. and i felt benefits



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 7 2026 15:41:15)

quote:

neither of these 2 seem to be a pressure issue. more to do with the awkward stretch/fingering.


Right. Well for those things try the capo for practice to get used to the stretches. Then move back one position at a time from what was easy or comfortable. Your hand will adapt gradually until you can do the full stretch. This partly why Gerardo would use capo 3 for the lower level class and no capo in the advanced class. I have a 670mm guitar and 650mm and never noticed the big difference doing things with capo. It is only without the capo that I can really feel that bigger guitar is harder doing stretches like you describe. If I am working on a new thing with big stretch, I don't use that 670 guitar. But after I am good with it on the smaller guitar I can easily adapt to the bigger scale. But if only using one guitar, the capo is the trick to these problems.



metalhead -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 10 2026 19:46:45)

Interesting bit about using a mute part. I didn't know PDL did this too.

I have been doing this for months now because it helps me focus on the metronome more.

I am curious if it's any more helpful for right hand technique? Technique wise, is it harder to play with or without the mute?



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 11 2026 14:46:44)

If you are working on a piece that requires notes ringing and sustained dissonance or suspensions, of course this thing is no good. But practically all other techniques benefit, mainly due to the timing issues you noticed that get put front and center and really make your playing more fluid in general.



francisgrant -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 28 2026 17:47:48)

I don't know how helpful my reply will be for you but just to mention that my hand aches have become considerably less after working on hand strengthening exercises.

I had started getting back into generic hand strengthening exercises to help with a thumb injury. I'm also really into boxing, where hand conditioning is an essential part of fundamental training. I've noticed that it's had a big impact on my fretting hand stamina.

Not to downplay the importance of technique, which other have touched on. I just wanted to bring an interesting take which you may not have thought of.



silddx -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 28 2026 20:18:45)

Hello Francis, can you elucidate on the hand strengthening exercises you've been using please? I think most hand strength comes from the forearm so I'm interested, especially from the boxing perspective. I'm becoming an old bastard and my hands are developing issues. Cheers.



Auda -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 29 2026 18:39:46)

Stating the obvious Stu but exploring different fingerings can be productive.

Cheers



rombsix -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 30 2026 0:19:44)

Dr. Grant, you're in the UK right? We had a Foro meet-up in London recently. Would you have been able to stop by had I thought about checking with you in advance like I did with some of the folks on here? My wife and I might be back in London again at some point. [:)]



Arash -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Aug. 30 2026 14:33:57)

Besides strenghtening, I found stretching exercises helpful.
Just look them up online and do them before playing.



francisgrant -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 6 2026 13:49:50)

@silddx
Hello Nigel! It takes a bit of explaining but any generic hand exercises that work flexor and extensor muscles. My opinion is the best way of doing this is with rice bucket training haha [:D] YouTube it and check it out! Happy to send you some videos directly to you of what I do if it helps.

A lot of strength does, indeed, come from the forearms. However, I meant more from the perspective of tissue resilience and joint health of the hands. Lots of boxers break their hands and it ends their careers. Hence why basic hand strengthening is routine.


@rombsix
Prof Ramziiiiiiii. Yessirr!! I used to be in and out of London most weeks for work. Not so much these days but I'll keep an eye abouts here if you post about another meet up. I would love to join but I didn't see the last time. Thanks for the heads up! I hope you had a great stay in London and enjoyed England.


@Arash
Yeah I totally agree, I stretch every day; before and after playing.



kitarist -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 6 2026 20:16:23)

quote:

@Arash
Yeah I totally agree, I stretch every day; before and after playing.


However, don't stretch before - stretching cold is generally not a good idea as it can lead to injuries while not providing you with any advantage. You want to warm up before, instead.



Stu -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 7 2026 8:21:18)

quote:

One in particular in Gerardo Nunezes Trafalgar from the opening libre passage

2nd fret A string - index
5th fret on G and B - m and a
7th fret on high e - e


Im not sure theres an alterate fingering for this chord!! [:D][&:]

to be honest this has become quite doable now with the correct pre-emptive wrist arm shift.

and at a fair speed its fine. but as a i said before its when holding for an unusually extended period of time whilst practicing un naturally slowly.



Auda -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 7 2026 15:07:14)

See! You have already considered it. Proving the fact that I was stating the obvious![;)]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 11 2026 3:08:08)

are people finding slow practice helpful in general?



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 11 2026 12:07:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

are people finding slow practice helpful in general?


My feeling is it depends on the passage you are working. If it is supposed to be a somewhat quick virtuoso thing, then slow practice to choreograph the hands is essential. You can't dive in to it or you encode "bumps in the road" that don't ever smooth out. But if the issue is a tricky rhythm then it is not good to turn 8th notes into quarter or half notes. You are trying to encode the "feel" of those passages so a medium foot tap is what you need. So a ballpark tempo to the final, meaning a little slower is ok but NOT half speed, so there will be lower threshold tempos you don't want to go below.

I would say if the issue is some technique you have to check the mechanics to decide if going slow will help or hinder. For example abanico is not the same thing if you go too slow. Certain finger stroke rasgueados as well don't feel correct when going one note at a time. Trying to get fast scale picado and alzapua etc, are much more efficiently practiced as "speed bursts" etc.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 11 2026 16:20:40)

That seems sensible. I recently watched a video by Noa Kageyama, who was a violinist who became a "performance psychologist." He does the thing of giving advice based on studies. Apparently a study was done where they documented how a bunch of experienced players learned a short passage, and then drew some conclusions based on how the better players did it.

One of the things that stuck with me was that the study implied minimizing mistakes, apparently via the technique of "fluid tempo." My interpretation was that while learning it, you would slow down for the "hard parts" as much as necessary to avoid getting the wrong notes in your hands. (Once I was told, "God will forgive you, but your nervous system will not.")

Even at the time, I wondered what you would think about this because I know that rhythm is a gigantic part of your approach--as makes sense, of course, in such a metronomic music as flamenco.

I recently got the gig to play in a musical called "Man of La Mancha," which is mostly flamenco-esque strumming, but including some weird passages that stuff a lot of chord changes into a tiny space. Example: https://ibb.co/cX62PWwm

I have been experimenting with just playing things at a fairly relaxed tempo, but then slowing down when necessary to get the hard parts, then bringing them up to speed by consciously changing the gesture once the fingers know where to go. It does seem to work pretty well.



Auda -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 11 2026 20:16:05)

"encode the feel"

I think that is true but once "encoded" I believe you can slow it down to work on articulation within the particular cadence. I read where Grisha, when getting ready for a concert, practices at 40 percent speed and his articulation is phenomenal. As you pointed out rasg. are difficult to execute slowly.

Cheers



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 12 2026 18:00:42)

quote:

One of the things that stuck with me was that the study implied minimizing mistakes, apparently via the technique of "fluid tempo." My interpretation was that while learning it, you would slow down for the "hard parts" as much as necessary to avoid getting the wrong notes in your hands. (Once I was told, "God will forgive you, but your nervous system will not.")

Even at the time, I wondered what you would think about this because I know that rhythm is a gigantic part of your approach--as makes sense, of course, in such a metronomic music as flamenco.


It is tricky because you can (and a huge percentage of classical musicians do this) encode the tempo flux as a permanent rhythm. Practice makes permanent not perfect. That is the issue. You slow down the hard part and then always do that. Where I am ok with the idea of slowing down a tricky spot is when you isolate and repeat it. Rather than play normal then suddenly slow down. That is no good. If you isolate and repeat the section until it is finally at the tempo of the rest, then you work on the seams, smooth out any bumps in the road.

Ironically, I got a nasty comment on my infamous "learn tomatito in 8 minutes" video this morning. They said "8 minutes of watching an idiot. Try using the pause button and how about show your hands close and not your cowboy boots." [:D][:D][8D][8|]



Ricardo -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 12 2026 18:05:45)

quote:

I read where Grisha, when getting ready for a concert, practices at 40 percent speed and his articulation is phenomenal.


The thing is Grisha is a child prodigy and could already run fast passages at an age when I was playing T ball. So his slowing down to focus about articulation has very little to do with what people really want which is speed and fluidity. Of course all of us that can play fast sections of music easily, often slow down the music to explore other details about it than physical mechanics at speed. I have decent rasgueados but I still find use in exploring details of the dynamics and such, depending on the purpose. So I feel his advice at slowing down is more for guys like myself that can already go fast but have come to rest on our laurels and still have much to improve.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 13 2026 0:30:16)

Yeah, I figured you might feel that way (about the rhythm). In effect, by slowing down when necessary like in the study, they are substituting one error for the other.

It seems that any kind of practicing is "wrong" in a way--as until we are playing the thing through at speed, there is something different from the ideal performance. After all, even when I isolate sections, it's always the transitions where things get hairy.

The only thing I don't like about your Tomatito video is you don't show us how to get the actual falseta in our mind and kind of assume that part is already taken care of, but it was very interesting to see how a pro does things anyway.



kitarist -> RE: practicing slow / aches (Sep. 13 2026 20:35:54)

quote:

The only thing I don't like about your Tomatito video is you don't show us how to get the actual falseta in our mind


I thought it shows you exactly that - that is why is says "in 8 minutes" while lasting about 8 minutes - what you see IS the process of fully installing it into your brain in about 8 minutes.



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