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Hi folks - to measure the scale length on a traditional guitar, I go from the nut to the saddle. In the case of a guitar with a zero fret, how would one measure the scale length? From the zero fret to the saddle? Or still from the nut to the saddle still? Thanks!
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
Thanks Rob - wow, this guitar is ULTRA short. It's a 637 mm scale length!
After you measure the distance from zero fret to 12th fret, measure from zero fret to saddle and see is the actual string length is longer that twice times the distance from zero to 12. Make sure you measure to the exact center of the frets.
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
Thanks Rob - wow, this guitar is ULTRA short. It's a 637 mm scale length!
Just to clarify...if the measurement from zero to twelfth fret was 637/2 = 318.5mm, then 637mm is the true scale length. The difference between the zero to twelfth and the measure from the twelfth to the saddle (as suggested by estebanana) will show the compensation due to saddle placement. Another method is to just measure the zero fret (from the middle) to where the string leaves the saddle but that's the scale length plus compensation. The use of a zero fret implies there's no compensation at the nut, as one of the reasons for a zero fret is to eliminate the need.
I suspect the 630mm mentioned by Firefrets is a typo? Otherwise, I don't know how that was arrived at based on the information presented.
I would think any increase in compensation due to a reduction in scale length would be inversely proportional to the percentage of the reduction, assuming no reduction in string height above the twelfth is done. There could be a slight increase in compensation at the saddle but nothing dramatic. Maybe I'm missing something here?
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to RobF)
From the middle of the zero fret to the middle of the twelfth fret was indeed 318.5 mm so I multiplied that number by two and got 637 mm. When I measured from the middle of the zero fret to the edge of the saddle (where the string leaves the saddle) closer to the "sound hole" (you'll see why I put that in quotation marks by looking at the video below), I got 637 mm.
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to estebanana)
So just to make sure, based on what I discussed of the measurements I obtained, is this guitar considered a 637 mm scale length instrument? Most guitars I play are 650 mm scale length, but they don't have zero frets, and for those, I measure from the nut to the saddle and I get 650 mm as the value. So for this guitar with the zero fret, is 637 mm (from the zero fret to the saddle) not the scale length? If not, what is it then?
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to rombsix)
It would be a 637mm scale length without compensation. Compensation would make the string length longer by the amount of compensation. The zero fret to twelfth fret is an accurate measure of scale length as it is, by definition, half of the scale length. Scale length is used to determine the placement of the frets. Compensation sits outside of that and that's why the string length doesn't always match the scale length.
So, if anyone asks, tell them it is a 637mm scale length. That the string length and scale length are the same just means this particular instrument is not compensated.
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix
So just to make sure, based on what I discussed of the measurements I obtained, is this guitar considered a 637 mm scale length instrument? Most guitars I play are 650 mm scale length, but they don't have zero frets, and for those, I measure from the nut to the saddle and I get 650 mm as the value. So for this guitar with the zero fret, is 637 mm (from the zero fret to the saddle) not the scale length? If not, what is it then?
Sorry - I'm just worried I got confused.
650 mm is probably the most commonly found scale over all, it was Torres’ final design version that sort of standardized it, although it’s really a measurement based on inches used in Spain at the time. The metric system did arrive to be standardized in the mad making trades until a bit later.
So that’s why there’s a standard mean of 650mm scale. 650 millimeters is 25.5906 inches. Due to the fast that the metric system is held to a specific length of what a meter is and the old system of what an inch length is, there is a minute amount of ‘historical mensurative slop’ in the conversion between the modern metric system and the old Iberian inch. Which means Torres’ personal ruler was used to create a 25.5 inch scale length, that we now refer to ( in historical error) as ‘the 650’.
Ok so there’s that-
Now any guitar you measure to get a scale length, you’ll want to measure from the stopping point of the string whether that’s a nut front edge or a zero fret center line to the center of the 12th fret and multiply by 2. We’ve established this is ‘Scale’ length. Those stopping points from the guitar headstock side to the center of the 12th fret are universal on any Western fretted instruments, mandolin, guitar, or ukulele etc.
What you also need to consider to get a highly accurate measurement is a meter long steel ruler with Millimeter tick marks. A cloth tape ruler, or a carpenters roller tape could be fallible because it’s hard to hold and the cloth ruler can stretch. You may find if you use a metal meter rule that you get a more accurate measurement that will register a difference between the scale length and the ‘string length’ because it’s difficult to see the 2 mm of compensation added unless you actually lightly clamp the metal ruler to the neck with the Zero end of the ruler butted against the front face of the nut. Then with a magnifying glass or a magnifying visor and a light, check the position of the 12th fret on the ruler.
Then with the ruler still clamped to the neck, check the place on the saddle where the string of making contact with the saddle. Accuracy counts here because it’s easy to miss the 2mm of compensation unless your metal ruler is dead still fixed during both measurements being taken.
Also that guitar is muy chingona, you might get a venereal disease from it. Maybe you should start a course of penicillin just in case.
RE: Scale length with zero fret (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
Also that guitar is muy chingona, you might get a venereal disease from it. Maybe you should start a course of penicillin just in case.
I used the tape measure that my wife employs in her sewing projects, which is my go-to instrument for obtaining accurate dimensions, whatever they may be.
I'll just go with 637 mm scale length and if anyone complains, I'll say that a week's worth of penicillin will resolve any issues they may have.
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