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My guitar tech said these are no good for classical / flamenco guitars because these guitars have flat fingerboards, and the curved saddles are designed to match the curve on a radiused fretboard. Thus, using these curved saddles on a classical / flamenco guitar will be bad because it will create a different action for each string.
My understanding is that bass strings always have higher action than treble strings on flamenco guitars (and likely classical guitars), and I assume you cannot get the three basses to have X action and the three trebles to have Y action, rather, the action has to gradually decrease from low E to high E. We never measure the action at the A, D, G, and B strings, though, only the top and bottom strings.
He said it's fine if the saddle has a straight line on top and is in the shape of a wedge (basses with higher action, trebles with lower action), as long as it's not a curve.
I'm having a hard time understanding why my guitar tech thinks a curved saddle would be a problem... Can someone help me understand?
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
Curved saddles go with radiused fingerboards. The kind of fingerboard that usually on steel string guitars. The radiused saddle matches roughly the radiused fingerboard.
Go to a guitar store and look at the steel string acoustics and you’ll see the curved fingerboard and saddle.
If you bought it to try you should. It won’t hurt the guitar, just make sure you get the action /pulcacion correct ☑️ You’ll quickly understand why it’s not used on flamenco setup.
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
If you bought it to try you should. It won’t hurt the guitar, just make sure you get the action /pulcacion correct ☑️ You’ll quickly understand why it’s not used on flamenco setup.
Can you give me a one-liner to explain a bit more, please?
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
A 'very slight' radius raising the D&G strings on a Spanish guitar can actually be a good thing when done properly. You can always remove the radius, or lessen it etc, and still get use from the saddle. It's all a case of how things feel to play for an individual.
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
In looking at the images of the saddle, do you think the curve is significant? I mean, to be honest, I didn't even notice until my guitar tech mentioned it. I thought the saddle was higher on the low E side and lower on the high E side, and the curve was constantly descending. I guess if I look closer (I don't have the actual saddle now - it's at my guitar tech's place), I think it does go from a lower height on the low E, to a bit higher on the D and G, then descends again towards the B and high E. Are y'all seeing that too?
Different question: if the saddle constantly descends from low E to high E (i.e. no high point in the middle), would there be an advantage for it to descend in a straight line versus to descend in a curve?
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RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
quote:
Can you give me a one-liner to explain a bit more, please?
don't use em, they suck.
Basically your right hand will have to do picados "over a hump" rather than flat across. If you play slow it doesn't matter really. Same issue on Electric guitars for fast picking of long scale patterns. Some dude just "radiused" my Floyd Rose and it sucked big time. Suddenly my fast picking fell apart. I had to have it re done "flat" or at least "flatter" like it was before so my more poor picking hand could to its job.
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
To me it looks like there is a slight radius on the saddle. I think the idea of a straight ramp is just to get the action ideally low, in an even way. Without a fretboard radius the middle strings technically do not need to be that high….
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
Yes it looks significantly curved to me. My first 'proper' flamenco guitar was a Juan Montes Rodriquez 1a. It came with a curved saddle but not as curved as that. The frets and fretboard seemed dead flat. This made me think all saddles should have a slight curve until my luthier told me most flamencos prefer a flat profile for an even rasgueo.
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Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: Curved saddle for flamenco guitar (in reply to rombsix)
A curved saddle can make some things more playable. Near the beginning of Guajiras de Lucia there is a section that involves half barring with the left index finger while leaving the first string open. With a straight saddle, it can be difficult to keep the finger from hitting the first string, whereas with a curved saddle it's easier (because the first string will be lower under the finger). Just a slight curve will do it and not make other things harder.
Also, a slight curve can help the G string while optimizing the distances on the others. I guess it comes down to user/maker preference but slight crowns aren't uncommon on classical guitars. Dead flat fingerboards are good for using the capo but dead flat can also look concave. A lot of fingerboards that appear flat can actually have a very slight radius to compensate for this. But again, user and maker preferences come into play.
If you purchased a pre-made saddle with too much curve it's pretty straightforward to flatten it out. Be mindful of the shape of the top (be it cylindrical or slanting towards the tie-block) if any compensation is to be done to the G as when you intonate there's a danger of lowering the G w.r.t. the others, which is the opposite of what's optimal.
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