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Hey all, I was wondering if lowering the action might makes ligado/picado smoother? Right now my action is around 5mm on the low e string and I've heard some people have it around 3mm. Will it help with fast lines, and can you lower the action yourself or does it affect intonation a lot?
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Question about action (in reply to TeoFlamenco2)
5mm is not playable so you are measuring incorrectly. Measure the 12th fret (between top of fret wire and bottom of string above it) with capo at 1 to understand your action. 4mm is playable but pretty high. Or you have a bowed neck or something messed up. The simple answer that lowering action makes the guitar easier is true, but sound volume of your guitar will decrease. Take off the bone saddle and sand the bottom part.
DO NOT MESS WITH THE NUT, it affects the action ONLY at the first fret. That is why you use a capo 1 to check action.
Am I supposed to measure it from the top of the fret or the wood on the neck? If so, that would explain it, but then it would be around 4mm and it sure feels high.
And I feel like my action is holding me back, whether it's 4mm or 5mm (probably around 4, used to be higher but I sanded it a little once), this is with the capo at the 1st fret:
Without looking at his right hand one cannot say if it's good or bad. But the sound will give you a first impression. I would say it's a free stroke or he doesn't do a proper rest stroke. But it's normal when one tries hard to speed up. As a result picado will not sound flamenco.
RE: Question about action (in reply to TeoFlamenco2)
quote:
m I supposed to measure it from the top of the fret or the wood on the neck? If so, that would explain it, but then it would be around 4mm and it sure feels high.
As Ricardo said, measure from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string at the 12th.
It should not exceed 3mm by much, and preferably a bit under. But the feel and comfort of your guitar also depends on the amount of relief in the neck or fret tops, tension of your strings, pulsacion characteristics, etc.
Give us a photo of the strings at the saddle too.
Also, if you check the checkbox in your post window that says 'Embed picture in post', it will display the picture or video in the post. Photos need to be small file size.
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The first part is free stroke ami, Paco did it that way in Monasteriode Sal, so there's no reason it shouldn't sound flamenco.
The second part (the descending scale) I do as ami picado, rest stroke, whereas Paco did im.
I had a really bad finger incident with my i finger and my picado progress with im has stopped (due to pain and cramps) so I switched over to 3 fingers a month ago and have seen incredible progress.
Youtube shorts also crops videos in a weird way, I psoted the same thing on instagram where you can see my right hand :)
RE: Question about action (in reply to TeoFlamenco2)
No, don’t just sand away, there could be other factors like neck angle and relief that limit the action height. Gently sand and check, and keep doing that until you start hearing a slight buzz. Then you have probably reached the limit. You can shim the saddle with a thin piece of paper or card if you go too low, but that’s not ideal.
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It's pretty much 1cm at the bridge. Also I really don't want the video to be misleading, this is all 3 finger stuff so it's easier to play picado fast, it's just that shorts cropped the video in a weird way hiding my right hand In the future i'll specify it's ami,
Speed out of the way though, my left hand notes aren't clean, the middle note in the 3 note pattern doesn't come through so that could be due to action
Could be, bought it off some guy who was a representative for the brand, but he didn't find success with selling them so he gave me a big discount. He told me it was a flamenco guitar, it had a golpeador installed and that was enough for 17 year old me. Also I really liked how loud the guitar was in comparison to another classical I have. Haven't played on many other guitars since, just kinda went for it and stuck with this one.
Thank you for notifying me, any particular reason for mm vs cm? So it's easier for non-metric users or is it just standard practice when talking about setup?
Okay, I'll take it to the luthier in a couple of weeks and will do an update on that.
Thank you everyone, you've been incredibly helpful :) My guitar being barely playable is probably the reason I've had a lot of pain when playing and just bulldozed through it even when I shouldn't have
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Question about action (in reply to TeoFlamenco2)
quote:
ORIGINAL: TeoFlamenco2
Will messing with the nut affect my intonation? Because action at the 1st fret feels high too
Not intonation, but if you lower the nut too much, then your guitar will buzz sympathetically behind the capo position or behind a fretted note (mainly the 6th will do it, and it is loud and annoying). You can lower it if doing an F barre chord at fret 1 is not comfortable but just try to keep it high enough to clear the low frets (you can check by fretting like the 12th and then pluck the string between 12th and the nut to see if it is banging against any frets).
If you do this yourself and you go to far, you can put a shim under the nut, or multiple shims, until the buzz stops.
As to your action photo, yes too high. And bridge at 1cm....we don't use cm cuz it should never reach such a soaring height 7-8.5 mm is goldilocks. If your bone saddle is already down low, then you will have to shave down the BRIDGE itself, taking enough wood out to expose the saddle a bit...but if your string holes are too high, it is possible to take the break angle down clear to zero....that would mess up the intonation and cause more buzzing at the bridge...you need to maintain some minimal angle back there.
It is sounding like it is time for a new guitar. I recommend Stephen Faulk or orange Conde. Also I just played Jason's Mcguire's no. 20 guitar, it was excellent.
Wow, thanks Ricardo, your info is a treasure trove. I'll see what I can manage financially. I will try to get a setup but I'm definitely looking for another guitar down the line.
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