Question about action (Full Version)

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TeoFlamenco2 -> Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 7:27:58)

Hey all, I was wondering if lowering the action might makes ligado/picado smoother? Right now my action is around 5mm on the low e string and I've heard some people have it around 3mm. Will it help with fast lines, and can you lower the action yourself or does it affect intonation a lot?




silddx -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 9:50:18)

You will get good advice for this here, but in the meantime, what is your guitar? Is it a classical or flamenco?

5mm is way too high even for classical. A Flamenco should be no higher than about 3mm low E at 12 fret. Have you got lots of saddle bone visible?

What is the height of the strings from the body at the saddle?

The nut might need attention too.

Photos can be useful.

Lower action will make the guitar more easily playable.




Ricardo -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 11:46:20)

5mm is not playable so you are measuring incorrectly. Measure the 12th fret (between top of fret wire and bottom of string above it) with capo at 1 to understand your action. 4mm is playable but pretty high. Or you have a bowed neck or something messed up. The simple answer that lowering action makes the guitar easier is true, but sound volume of your guitar will decrease. Take off the bone saddle and sand the bottom part.

DO NOT MESS WITH THE NUT, it affects the action ONLY at the first fret. That is why you use a capo 1 to check action.




metalhead -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 13:20:56)

he probably has a ruler that has divisions for 0.5mm and so I bet he counted 2.5 mm as 5 mm [:D]




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 15:42:04)

Not much saddle bone visible, perhaps I am measuring incorrectly.
My guitar is a Paco Castillo 211f




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 15:43:25)

Am I supposed to measure it from the top of the fret or the wood on the neck?
If so, that would explain it, but then it would be around 4mm and it sure feels high.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 15:44:40)

Will messing with the nut affect my intonation? Because action at the 1st fret feels high too




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 16:09:32)

That would be a crazy precise ruler hahahah




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 18:06:36)

This is my current action in the attachment, I can barely manage picado/free stroke at these speeds
( https://youtube.com/shorts/b3CK9qO1v7M?si=gd7d187tu6CpPdfK )


And I feel like my action is holding me back, whether it's 4mm or 5mm (probably around 4, used to be higher but I sanded it a little once), this is with the capo at the 1st fret:




metalhead -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 18:20:45)

your picado looks very good to me tbh




devilhand -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 19:20:56)

quote:

your picado looks very good to me tbh

Without looking at his right hand one cannot say if it's good or bad. But the sound will give you a first impression.
I would say it's a free stroke or he doesn't do a proper rest stroke. But it's normal when one tries hard to speed up.
As a result picado will not sound flamenco.




metalhead -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 19:38:53)

free stroke at that speed is not possible, he is obviously playing a full rest stroke




silddx -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 19:51:56)

quote:

m I supposed to measure it from the top of the fret or the wood on the neck?
If so, that would explain it, but then it would be around 4mm and it sure feels high.


As Ricardo said, measure from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string at the 12th.

It should not exceed 3mm by much, and preferably a bit under. But the feel and comfort of your guitar also depends on the amount of relief in the neck or fret tops, tension of your strings, pulsacion characteristics, etc.

Give us a photo of the strings at the saddle too.

Also, if you check the checkbox in your post window that says 'Embed picture in post', it will display the picture or video in the post. Photos need to be small file size.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




silddx -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 19:58:17)

quote:

That would be a crazy precise ruler hahahah


Not really. Get yourself a good 6 inch engineer's ruler, you will find it useful in the future.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 20:48:19)

The first part is free stroke ami, Paco did it that way in Monasteriode Sal, so there's no reason it shouldn't sound flamenco.

The second part (the descending scale) I do as ami picado, rest stroke, whereas Paco did im.

I had a really bad finger incident with my i finger and my picado progress with im has stopped (due to pain and cramps) so I switched over to 3 fingers a month ago and have seen incredible progress.

Youtube shorts also crops videos in a weird way, I psoted the same thing on instagram where you can see my right hand :)


https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIbo7btt4Ep/?igsh=MWVweDl5emMzdTF0eA==




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 20:50:14)

Thank you so much! This is really helpful.

So in practice I can basically just sand away until I reach the 3mm mark and hope for the best haha?




silddx -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 21:37:32)

No, don’t just sand away, there could be other factors like neck angle and relief that limit the action height. Gently sand and check, and keep doing that until you start hearing a slight buzz. Then you have probably reached the limit. You can shim the saddle with a thin piece of paper or card if you go too low, but that’s not ideal.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 21:44:44)

Fair, that seems more measured




JasonM -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 22:40:37)

Your picado is faster than mine even with high action lol

What is the height of the 6th string just in front of the bridge?




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 22:53:17)

It's pretty much 1cm at the bridge.
Also I really don't want the video to be misleading, this is all 3 finger stuff so it's easier to play picado fast, it's just that shorts cropped the video in a weird way hiding my right hand
In the future i'll specify it's ami,

Speed out of the way though, my left hand notes aren't clean, the middle note in the 3 note pattern doesn't come through so that could be due to action




silddx -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 22:58:36)

quote:

It's pretty much 1cm at the bridge.

Sounds like a classical guitar.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 23:01:14)

Could be, bought it off some guy who was a representative for the brand, but he didn't find success with selling them so he gave me a big discount. He told me it was a flamenco guitar, it had a golpeador installed and that was enough for 17 year old me. Also I really liked how loud the guitar was in comparison to another classical I have. Haven't played on many other guitars since, just kinda went for it and stuck with this one.




devilhand -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 23:32:42)

quote:

The first part is free stroke ami, Paco did it that way in Monasteriode Sal, so there's no reason it shouldn't sound flamenco.

The second part (the descending scale) I do as ami picado, rest stroke, whereas Paco did im.

Ok. 3 finger picado is a different animal.

quote:

It's pretty much 1cm at the bridge.

We use mm. 10mm is still high. You really need a good set up. For example my guitar has 6mm at the bridge.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 28 2025 23:54:34)

Thank you for notifying me, any particular reason for mm vs cm?
So it's easier for non-metric users or is it just standard practice when talking about setup?

Also should I go to a luthier for a setup?




rombsix -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 29 2025 3:23:34)

quote:

Also should I go to a luthier for a setup?


Yes [:)]

You ideally want something like 2.5 mm at the 12th fret high E, and 3.0 mm at the 12th fret low E, and you want about 8 mm at the bridge (low E).




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 29 2025 9:35:40)

Okay, I'll take it to the luthier in a couple of weeks and will do an update on that.

Thank you everyone, you've been incredibly helpful :)
My guitar being barely playable is probably the reason I've had a lot of pain when playing and just bulldozed through it even when I shouldn't have




Ricardo -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 29 2025 11:51:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeoFlamenco2

Will messing with the nut affect my intonation? Because action at the 1st fret feels high too


Not intonation, but if you lower the nut too much, then your guitar will buzz sympathetically behind the capo position or behind a fretted note (mainly the 6th will do it, and it is loud and annoying). You can lower it if doing an F barre chord at fret 1 is not comfortable but just try to keep it high enough to clear the low frets (you can check by fretting like the 12th and then pluck the string between 12th and the nut to see if it is banging against any frets).

If you do this yourself and you go to far, you can put a shim under the nut, or multiple shims, until the buzz stops.

As to your action photo, yes too high. And bridge at 1cm....we don't use cm cuz it should never reach such a soaring height [:D][:D] 7-8.5 mm is goldilocks. If your bone saddle is already down low, then you will have to shave down the BRIDGE itself, taking enough wood out to expose the saddle a bit...but if your string holes are too high, it is possible to take the break angle down clear to zero....that would mess up the intonation and cause more buzzing at the bridge...you need to maintain some minimal angle back there.

It is sounding like it is time for a new guitar. I recommend Stephen Faulk or orange Conde. Also I just played Jason's Mcguire's no. 20 guitar, it was excellent.




TeoFlamenco2 -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 29 2025 12:54:23)

Wow, thanks Ricardo, your info is a treasure trove. I'll see what I can manage financially. I will try to get a setup but I'm definitely looking for another guitar down the line.




rombsix -> RE: Question about action (Apr. 29 2025 16:38:53)

quote:

Also I just played Jason's Mcguire's no. 20 guitar, it was excellent.


Eso!




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