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Do you believe in karma and reincarnation?
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Ricardo
Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: Do you believe in karma and rein... (in reply to metalhead)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: metalhead
If not, why are few given an upper hand in life and a few a lower hand?
Science has answered orders of magnitude MORE philosophical “problems” and “mysteries” of the world than any other discipline, yet people still continue to point out the teeny tiny fraction of situations that remain contradictory or unresolved, and come away with “science hasn’t or CAN’T explain EVERYTHING!!! What about bla bla bla!!!”. This is simply dumb, I hate to say.
So where are we with THIS question? We observe too many hard truths in the animal kingdom, yet humans still are arguing if animals even have “consciousness” which is a silly question. This entire situation you bring up is explained perfectly by subjective biases based on COINCIDENCES. In the moments where a subjective experience tells us the TIMING of events seem to be correlated, it appears subjectively true and real. Yet, objectively, you can’t ever USE this thing to make accurate predictions over 50/50 odds.
For example, people treat me bad and I think “uh oh, they are gonna get hit hard”, which is “karma”. Well, it is inevitable they do…but it is my lack of ability to predict EXACTLY when this will happen, that makes me wonder if I am just LOOKING to connect two unrelated dots with a direct link. It is “creative” this thing our minds do. It is “real” to ME, but to the outside world, it is just coincidence. It has taken me many years to accept this situation, but hate to say, there is nothing to any of these interpretations of the meta physical.
When we are dealt a bad hand, unfortunately, it is understandable to want to lash out at the world, yet we scold these individuals. I once observed a huge killer bee sized wasp violently stinging only ONE of a pair of mating “wasps” of a different weird looking species, and finally eating its brains, while the partner, coupled in copulation, was just dangling by the rear end as it waited for the violence to end. It was so disturbing to me I went on line and discovered that the Robber fly, disguised as a bee or wasp with black and yellow stripes, invades Wasp nests, inserts its probiscus into the head of a wasp and sucks out its brains. I was observing the exact OPPOSITE scenario. I could not find literature on Wasps doing the SAME thing to a Robber fly…so this scene I observed looks exactly like REVENGE. 
So, what I am getting at, it is not just human to want to come to terms with bad luck, it could be all life is dealing with this issue. As far as we can tell, life begins at birth and stops at death (if not, why even bother to reproduce?). “Reincarnation” is occurring with every natural child birth…that is what genes are. Coincidence needs to SUFFICE as true explanation for spooky correlations, until MORE DATA is acquired and interpreted via the scientific method.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 24 2024 13:23:55
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Ricardo
Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Do you believe in karma and rein... (in reply to metalhead)
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quote:
How do you know that science is right. This could all be an illusion and science is merely explaining anything, and what if the real truth lies in these metaphysical things
Science never was nor ever will be under such obligation. It is not possible to run an experiment infinity times, so the possibility always remains that the outcome based on the model (an interpretation based on assumptions and observation of limited data points collected) will turn out wrong. Hence, the standard used is 1 in 5 million or so, is considered “NOT WRONG”. That is very different than claiming it is “right and true”. People always screw up that language.
If it is an illusion this changes nothing at all. The above is still holding, as we learn how the “illusion” functions and can predict how it evolves. If “truth” is “outside” of testability, then there no need to make predictions based upon it because it has no relevance on our “illusion” anyway. It is very simple. It is fun or entertaining to think about of course, but a waste of time if not dangerous to put credence into that stuff. Of course people like to go to the edge of understanding and ability to experiment, however, they never go back and try to deconstruct the obvious working models, and take many for granted that possibly deserve scrutiny. Scientists are constantly doing exactly that, but you don’t hear about it in the news unless something weird happens (usually an error or misinterpretation.).
People get angry with science, that it “makes claims” or claims to know things…but that is NOT what it is about. It is about cutting through the ocean of BS that floats around so we can get our bearings. Nothing more. When a model starts failing, or a much better one replaces it, there are no hard feelings there, the community enjoys changing its mind. Look at the ridiculous Pluto thing. Jeezzus stupid people. As a little kid I made a solar system model in the basement and was pissed off at Pluto for wandering inside Neptune orbit and other stupid things this “planet” does. As an adult I was finally satisfied that it got kicked off the list. These “adults” that can’t grasp the concept because of the emotional attachment to a list of 9 things their kid brains memorized, is exactly why they push against certain science claims in general. They are adverse to the changes that MUST and SHOULD occur, and think THAT is the failure of science, when it has everything to do with why it is the ONLY thing that works in these cases.
quote:
Also I get the idea, that you did believe in these things for a long time, but something happened midway and you went the purely science is right way, correct me if I'm wrong.
Exactly opposite. I had an experience that led me to believe in voodoo for a long time, and confirmation bias let it run on and on, for a while, but over time as I learned more about how science works, I shed it little by little. An old lady I had a discussion with brought a similar thing up recently which I had already moved past that I had also experienced and I decided to run the experiment for her sake, thinking to prove a 50/50 outcome or worse, it ended being zero out of 100. Much worse. So you can imagine I run the experiment a thousand times and the odds probably get even worse. There is no voodoo, hate to say (but don’t tell my guitars that, they still believe they are being protected!).
quote:
It could be wrong but if believing in karma explained the shorter hand you got in life and it keeps you happy, would it really matter.
Yes it matters because you could waste time that could be spent improving your life when you are sitting there “believing” that better times are coming. Unless you are physically being prevented against your will, the worse evil I can imagine, anyone should be able to work toward improving their situation. Not saying it is “easy”, but possible. The world is what WE make of it, in other words.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 26 2024 15:11:34
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do you believe in karma and rein... (in reply to metalhead)
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quote:
Delusions are the best because they keep you happy, and the best part about delusions are, they don't have to be right. As long as they make you happy, that's all the matters I think
If we followed your line of thinking, mankind would not have advanced at all. Most of the discoveries and inventions that have improved life around the planet have been made by the West. The telescope, microscope, spectacles, gyroscope, relativity, quantum mechanics, Blood flow, germ theory, the mechanical clock, Gutenberg's movable type and printing press, the steam engine, heavier-than-air flight, and a hundred others. It all occurred because the West has valued individual effort and inquiry which led to the eighteenth century Enlightenment and the Scientific Method.
Those are the keys, the eighteenth century Enlightenment and the Scientific Method. While the West pioneered many of these discoveries, they are really hallmarks of modernity. The West (with some exceptions, primarily in mathematics by the Arabs and Indians) just discovered them first. But it is important to note why the West discovered them while others did not. It was due to cultural factors that valued individual effort and rationality, which separated the realms of the sacred and the secular, which when fused together held back (and continues to hold back) whole swaths of mankind.
In my opinion, to extoll the virtues of delusions "because they keep you happy" is tantamount to saying "ignorance is bliss."
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 26 2024 20:42:18
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estebanana
Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Do you believe in karma and rein... (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
quote:
Delusions are the best because they keep you happy, and the best part about delusions are, they don't have to be right. As long as they make you happy, that's all the matters I think
If we followed your line of thinking, mankind would not have advanced at all. Most of the discoveries and inventions that have improved life around the planet have been made by the West. The telescope, microscope, spectacles, gyroscope, relativity, quantum mechanics, Blood flow, germ theory, the mechanical clock, Gutenberg's movable type and printing press, the steam engine, heavier-than-air flight, and a hundred others. It all occurred because the West has valued individual effort and inquiry which led to the eighteenth century Enlightenment and the Scientific Method.
Those are the keys, the eighteenth century Enlightenment and the Scientific Method. While the West pioneered many of these discoveries, they are really hallmarks of modernity. The West (with some exceptions, primarily in mathematics by the Arabs and Indians) just discovered them first. But it is important to note why the West discovered them while others did not. It was due to cultural factors that valued individual effort and rationality, which separated the realms of the sacred and the secular, which when fused together held back (and continues to hold back) whole swaths of mankind.
In my opinion, to extoll the virtues of delusions "because they keep you happy" is tantamount to saying "ignorance is bliss."
Bill
In Buddhism, ignorance as delusion is the cause or perpetuator of suffering.
Which after a life contemplating karmic consequences it prompted Sylvester the Cat to formulate the saying that instantaneously denotes an action or situation as an event wrought with delusion.
Sufferin’ Succotash
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Date Apr. 27 2024 10:35:56
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