How to use West epoxy system for tap plates

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Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

How to use West epoxy system for tap...

Anybody on the forum use West system epoxy to fix tap plates?
Is it easy to use and get a good result?
What is the method and materials used?

Cheers,
Andre

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2021 9:41:11

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

If you use epoxy to glue the tap plate on, then how do you remove it when you need a new plate?

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2021 0:10:00

JasonM

Posts: 2051
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

Why not use self adhesive backed one from places like Madinter in Spain or LMI in the US?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2021 3:00:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to JasonM)

Make sure you have a clear plate from LMI. My last order from them was full of tiny air holes that I could not rub out....

It was almost catastrophic to remove the plate.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2021 16:54:21

Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

As I recently found out, it's irreversible. Have dropped the idea of west epoxy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2021 11:45:05

Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to JasonM)

I'm in Australia.
Madinter won't ship to Australia and LMI's cheapest shipping option is $70 usd, that's ok if i was order other stuff as well but I'm just after the plates. I don't understand why they don't have a cheaper option.

Strings by mail sell 3M plates (which I think are not very good) but there International Priority Airmail option ( 7-14 days) is $6 usd.

So I was wondering if any forum members in Spain or the US could sell me some plates with some kind of airmail postage around $10. If Strings by mail can do, it must be possible.

Cheers,
Andre

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2021 12:05:13

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

I just got 10 plates from madinter and with no note on their website they have also switched to the 3m plates.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2021 17:56:39

Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Stephen, maybe my message was a bit confusing. The company 'Strings by Mail' sell the 3M plates. Madinter sell a different type and that is what I'm trying to get.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2021 22:33:47

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

Nope not confusing. As I said I just bought 10 plates from Madinter and they were the 3M kind. They used to sell something different.

Classical Autoadhesive Scratchplate See-Through.

I've been buying them from Madinter for the last 15 years. Now they are 3M, so I was not happy that they had not noted the change on their website. Because of the way I had to get them (Brexit related) I can't even send them back.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2021 8:04:50

Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Ok, my apologies. I was the one that got confused.

Well if they are the same 3M plates I've been using I'd be cautious about using them. I just found it hard to get a nice transparent look over the entire plate. I wonder if the LMI plates are now 3M too?

I've just ordered some mylar and rabbit skin glue, going to experiment with that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2021 11:02:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

Mylar has a harder surface than rigid vinyl but when it gets scratches in it, it's almost impossible to polish them out. However, I've used it on many of my guitars........

I used white poly vinyl glue with hot water to thin it down a little and roughed up the tap plate inside with 400 wet and dry sandpaper. Then applied the glue and then put down the plate and used a rubber roller to mash out all the air holes and white glue as much as possible, then let it dry.

The clean up around the plate is done with a soft damp towel, then dried off completely with a dry towel/rag. Don't let water dry on the finish or it may cause water spots.

I've had plates take as much as 3 days for the white color to dry clear. It depends how much white color you remove with the application, taking consideration to get all the air pockets pressed out. I recommend that you practice this on a smooth board first.

When the plate is ready to replace, just remove it with some hot water and clean up the glue with a hot water towel, and repeat the process. Repeating the process depends on the players use.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2021 14:20:43

Andre

Posts: 10
Joined: Nov. 21 2021

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

Tom, what do you use to shape your plates and any specific technique to get a clean smooth cut?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2021 13:35:29

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

A very sharp commercial razor box cutter and metal ruler as a guide and for the sound hole I made a wood compass with a razor insert to make the round cut....To round the plate from the bottom and top toward the sound hole I use a pair of sharp scissors.

For any rough edges I use 320 sand paper slightly slanted on the plate edge

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2021 14:21:16

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

I've used that 3M contact adhesive and it's like a sheet of gummy rubber and have been hesitant to use it thinking it would suck the trebles out of the top.

I've thought about epoxy but havnt for obvious reasons.

Tom, what white glue are you talking about? Like Elmers? Or a PVA like used I've used in book binding? Do you have a brand name?

Ok, I've got a confession to make, I've never put a tap plate on one of my guitars. There I said it, I feel flamenco deficient ;)

I've held it as an option but so far the ahnd full I've sold no one has asked for one.

I've thought about a layer or two of carbon fiber cause, Laid up wet directly on the top it would ring like, like,...

HR

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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 5:05:14

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to ernandez R)

quote:

Tom, what white glue are you talking about? Like Elmers? Or a PVA like used I've used in binding? Do you have a brand name?

Strangely enough I used Elmer's white glue when I first started building guitars.

Also, Tite-bond has a white glue for sale Probably PVA, but you might have to special order it as some stores don't have it in stock. I've used it to good success.

LMI used to sell a white glue that dried like clear glass and hard but water soluble........ they now use a yellow glue that I don't care for. It makes things harder to take apart and the clean up is more difficult. Just my opinion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 17:18:19

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

I'm not a guitar builder, but I have used quite a few different glue's and epoxies over the years. West Systems Epoxy would not be a great choice, although it is a great adhesive system. A glue which might be worth testing is "PVA Book Binding Adhesive" it is a bit similar to Elmers glue, but pretty sticky, and with easy cleanup, and I would bet removable.

Just and idea that came to mind reading the thread.

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 18:21:09

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

I'm not a guitar builder, but I have used quite a few different glue's and epoxies over the years. West Systems Epoxy would not be a great choice, although it is a great adhesive system. A glue which might be worth testing is "PVA Book Binding Adhesive" it is a bit similar to Elmers glue, but pretty sticky, and with easy cleanup, and I would bet removable.

Proper bookbinding glue is removable. I bind books. Not sure if it dries clear though, as it doesn't need to. It is also not designed to glue plastic to wood.

I bind books.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 19:07:15

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to Andre)

This is the kind I have, and it dries clear. Nice glue I use it for a lot of paper, and wood related projects and odd jobs (maps, books, etc). Nice stuff.

Jeff

https://www.amazon.com/Lineco-Books-Hand-Neutral-Adhesive/dp/B00NZGD6OS/ref=asc_df_B00NZGD6OS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198099762925&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14389327243099266583&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021428&hvtargid=pla-350150000831&th=1

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 20:58:33

ernandez R

Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

ORIGINAL: n85ae

I'm not a guitar builder, but I have used quite a few different glue's and epoxies over the years. West Systems Epoxy would not be a great choice, although it is a great adhesive system. A glue which might be worth testing is "PVA Book Binding Adhesive" it is a bit similar to Elmers glue, but pretty sticky, and with easy cleanup, and I would bet removable.

Just and idea that came to mind reading the thread.

Jeff

5AE,

I meant book binding PVA up thread but you know, long time A&P cause I couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag.

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2021 20:59:47

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: How to use West epoxy system for... (in reply to ernandez R)

Indeed you did mention it, my eyes only see what they want to see these days :)

Jeff

quote:

5AE,

I meant book binding PVA up thread but you know, long time A&P cause I couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag.

HR

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