Cleaning finish

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Cleaning finish

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Posts: 8
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

Cleaning finish

Dear all,

A couple of days ago I bought a liquid called "Luthier" professional varnish cleaner (from Gewa). I used a couple of drops on cotton an applied it on 25 cm sections (so repeated applying liquid on cotton for the next spot) and polished the entire guitar.
The finish of my guitar used to be matte feeling (not smooth at all). After I cleaned it with the Luthier liquid, it became smooth and shiny.
Now I feel that the sound has gotten more "flat", as in less overtones and groal after I did this cleaning. I never cleaned the guitar after it came from the builders workshop 3 years ago.

Have I done something wrong? Or could this liquid not be the cause (maybe the humidity is the cause and I'm freaking out for nothing).

Thank you a lot in advance for being so kind to reply!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:11:03

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

I wouldn't use anything to clean an instrument.. if it's polyurethane, "anything" goes, if it isn't.. no products.

Now about that, did you shake it well before using?

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:21:06

Posts: 8
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Thanks. Do you think I damaged the finish and that the sound got affected? It feels like a bit plastic sound instead of before it was more full and high end.

I shook the bottle well at the start of the cleaning session, but after that I didn't. I was turning the bottle upside down to apply more on the cotton cloth, so this was shaking it up a bit

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:25:14

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

quote:

Do you think I damaged the finish?

I won't comment on that, I don't even know what the finish on your guitar is.

You never know what's in those commercial products, possibly oils and some abrasive stuff.. that's why I said that if you have a bullet proof finnish, you can even use Windex or water.. if you have a delicate thin kind of finish, I think you're better of not using any products.

Just my opinion.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:28:16

Posts: 8
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

It has very little microscopic crystals the seller said, but they don't damage the finish he said. The seller (also repares guitars) of the music store assured me that it's good stuff and that he even uses this on the finest violins

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:30:22

nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

But guitars are rarely finished with violin varnish.

_____________________________

"The duende is God's orgasm." - Antonio Canales

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." - Santos Hernandez (as translated by R. Brune)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:35:28

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

quote:

The seller of the music store assured me that it's good stuff

Well.. then the guitar is sounding perfectly fine as it was before.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:36:35

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Yeah, varnish is something very specific and I've never heard of it being used on guitars. Varnish is almost like Polyurethane, very tough plasticy product. You purchased a product to clean a finish that you don't have. Potentially this product penetrated the finish you DO have and added some moisture to your instrument. Added moisture could certainly affect sound......

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:46:10

Posts: 8
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Thank you guys for the replies. "Varnish" is another world for Finish if im not mistaken Lenador. In Spain they say "varnisar" if they talk about applying finish.

I hope a luthier would reply on this topic. I'm really worried now... CD recordings are coming up and a couple of concerts. This is my best guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 19:50:26

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

quote:

"Varnish" is another world for Finish if im not mistaken Lenador. In Spain they say "varnisar"

Yeah it get's used like that but it's not correct. I have employees that say "Voy a varnisar las puertas" even though they are applying lacquer. But I assure you varnish is it's own thing. Check it out.
http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/skills-and-know-how/painting/whats-the-difference-between-polyurethane-varnish-shellac-and-lacquer

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 20:08:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Leñador, i think you are a bit off track on this one. Maybe its language related. Maybe the maker of the product got things mixed up. You know us non native english speakers sometimes say weird things and there´s also the difference between american and european english. I simply cant imagine anyone being so butcherish and finish a violin with polyurethane.

Its a product for violins. Good Violins are finished with either an alcohol based finish or an oil based finish. Its important not to mix stuff up for one or the other.
For example, I can clean my oil based lacquered violins with alcohol but if they were lacquered with alcohol based lacquer, then i would damage the finish if I cleaned with alcohol because its the disolvent.

I have a similar product for my violins that i use after having cleaned the raisin rests (from the bow) with alcohol. It has some kind of oil in it and maybe that oil does that your guitar sounds a bit 'muffly'
Normally it will disappear by itself by evaporating. It takes a little while though.

What is the finish on your guitar?

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 21:20:09

Posts: 8
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Hi Anders, thank you very much.
He used Pulieretano.

I just called my guitar builder in Sevilla because I was freaking out hehe. He also told me that this stuff penetrated the finish and that the guitar has to dry out. That like you say Anders it will disappear by itself by evaporating, When it looses the brilliance.

I was really worried, but as I understand everything can come back to the original state right Anders?
How long is a little while approximately?

Thank you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 21:26:18

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

quote:

Leñador, i think you are a bit off track on this one. Maybe its language related. Maybe the maker of the product got things mixed up. You know us non native english speakers sometimes say weird things and there´s also the difference between american and european english. I simply cant imagine anyone being so butcherish and finish a violin with polyurethane.

Hahaha yeah I gotcha, I knew no one would put actual Varnish on a guitar but I had no idea what went on in the violin world. Even native speakers born and raised in this area use the word varnish to apply to any kind of finish but every floor, cabinet, and wood finisher I've spoken to has made clear to me that it's a specific product(rarely ever used anymore actually) I think it's kinda like when people say "I'm going to xerox something".

But it sounds like I was kinda right anyway lolol It likely penetrated the finish and made it moist. I'm no instrument builder but working in construction has taught me you can't just go putting chemicals on finishes without knowing what the finishes are and how they react.

No idea how long drying out will take but I wouldn't recommend doing anything to try and speed up the drying process....

_____________________________

\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 22:30:40

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

quote:

He used Pulieretano.

Maybe you should put some pictures.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 22:35:27

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

Most likely it's just humidity. If the finish on your guitar is that sensitive the builder should switch to something more durable.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 13 2015 23:33:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Cleaning finish (in reply to Ra)

If the finish is polyuretano, I seriously doubt that the cleaning product has anything to do with your issue.
Anyways, dont use products like this one on polyuretano. Its basically plastic. And a humid cloth should do the thing. evntually with a VERY small amount of soap.

I believe Shelton is on course.
Where I live, 80km from Sevilla, the sun is shining , but inside my house the humidity is around 70%. That muffles the sound and when I leave my personal instruments in my workshop, which is around 55% these days, I can clearly hear a difference.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2015 8:09:15