Cleaning finish

Cleaning finish (Full Version)

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Ra -> Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:11:03)
Dear all, A couple of days ago I bought a liquid called "Luthier" professional varnish cleaner (from Gewa). I used a couple of drops on cotton an applied it on 25 cm sections (so repeated applying liquid on cotton for the next spot) and polished the entire guitar. The finish of my guitar used to be matte feeling (not smooth at all). After I cleaned it with the Luthier liquid, it became smooth and shiny. Now I feel that the sound has gotten more "flat", as in less overtones and groal after I did this cleaning. I never cleaned the guitar after it came from the builders workshop 3 years ago. Have I done something wrong? Or could this liquid not be the cause (maybe the humidity is the cause and I'm freaking out for nothing). Thank you a lot in advance for being so kind to reply! Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Sr. Martins -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:21:06)
I wouldn't use anything to clean an instrument.. if it's polyurethane, "anything" goes, if it isn't.. no products. Now about that, did you shake it well before using?

Ra -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:25:14)
Thanks. Do you think I damaged the finish and that the sound got affected? It feels like a bit plastic sound instead of before it was more full and high end. I shook the bottle well at the start of the cleaning session, but after that I didn't. I was turning the bottle upside down to apply more on the cotton cloth, so this was shaking it up a bit

Sr. Martins -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:28:16)
quote: Do you think I damaged the finish? I won't comment on that, I don't even know what the finish on your guitar is. You never know what's in those commercial products, possibly oils and some abrasive stuff.. that's why I said that if you have a bullet proof finnish, you can even use Windex or water.. if you have a delicate thin kind of finish, I think you're better of not using any products. Just my opinion.

Ra -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:30:22)
It has very little microscopic crystals the seller said, but they don't damage the finish he said. The seller (also repares guitars) of the music store assured me that it's good stuff and that he even uses this on the finest violins

nhills -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:35:28)
But guitars are rarely finished with violin varnish.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:36:35)
quote: The seller of the music store assured me that it's good stuff Well.. then the guitar is sounding perfectly fine as it was before. [8D]

Leñador -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:46:10)
Yeah, varnish is something very specific and I've never heard of it being used on guitars. Varnish is almost like Polyurethane, very tough plasticy product. You purchased a product to clean a finish that you don't have. Potentially this product penetrated the finish you DO have and added some moisture to your instrument. Added moisture could certainly affect sound......

Ra -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 19:50:26)
Thank you guys for the replies. "Varnish" is another world for Finish if im not mistaken Lenador. In Spain they say "varnisar" if they talk about applying finish. I hope a luthier would reply on this topic. I'm really worried now... CD recordings are coming up and a couple of concerts. This is my best guitar

Leñador -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 20:08:18)
quote: "Varnish" is another world for Finish if im not mistaken Lenador. In Spain they say "varnisar" Yeah it get's used like that but it's not correct. I have employees that say "Voy a varnisar las puertas" even though they are applying lacquer. But I assure you varnish is it's own thing. Check it out. http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/skills-and-know-how/painting/whats-the-difference-between-polyurethane-varnish-shellac-and-lacquer

Anders Eliasson -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 21:20:09)
Leñador, i think you are a bit off track on this one. Maybe its language related. Maybe the maker of the product got things mixed up. You know us non native english speakers sometimes say weird things and there´s also the difference between american and european english. I simply cant imagine anyone being so butcherish and finish a violin with polyurethane. Its a product for violins. Good Violins are finished with either an alcohol based finish or an oil based finish. Its important not to mix stuff up for one or the other. For example, I can clean my oil based lacquered violins with alcohol but if they were lacquered with alcohol based lacquer, then i would damage the finish if I cleaned with alcohol because its the disolvent. I have a similar product for my violins that i use after having cleaned the raisin rests (from the bow) with alcohol. It has some kind of oil in it and maybe that oil does that your guitar sounds a bit 'muffly' Normally it will disappear by itself by evaporating. It takes a little while though. What is the finish on your guitar?

Ra -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 21:26:18)
Hi Anders, thank you very much. He used Pulieretano. I just called my guitar builder in Sevilla because I was freaking out hehe. He also told me that this stuff penetrated the finish and that the guitar has to dry out. That like you say Anders it will disappear by itself by evaporating, When it looses the brilliance. I was really worried, but as I understand everything can come back to the original state right Anders? How long is a little while approximately? Thank you

Leñador -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 22:30:40)
quote: Leñador, i think you are a bit off track on this one. Maybe its language related. Maybe the maker of the product got things mixed up. You know us non native english speakers sometimes say weird things and there´s also the difference between american and european english. I simply cant imagine anyone being so butcherish and finish a violin with polyurethane. Hahaha yeah I gotcha, I knew no one would put actual Varnish on a guitar but I had no idea what went on in the violin world. Even native speakers born and raised in this area use the word varnish to apply to any kind of finish but every floor, cabinet, and wood finisher I've spoken to has made clear to me that it's a specific product(rarely ever used anymore actually) I think it's kinda like when people say "I'm going to xerox something". But it sounds like I was kinda right anyway lolol It likely penetrated the finish and made it moist. I'm no instrument builder but working in construction has taught me you can't just go putting chemicals on finishes without knowing what the finishes are and how they react. No idea how long drying out will take but I wouldn't recommend doing anything to try and speed up the drying process....

Sr. Martins -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 22:35:27)
quote: He used Pulieretano. Maybe you should put some pictures.

jshelton5040 -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 13 2015 23:33:28)
Most likely it's just humidity. If the finish on your guitar is that sensitive the builder should switch to something more durable.

Anders Eliasson -> RE: Cleaning finish (Nov. 14 2015 8:09:15)
If the finish is polyuretano, I seriously doubt that the cleaning product has anything to do with your issue. Anyways, dont use products like this one on polyuretano. Its basically plastic. And a humid cloth should do the thing. evntually with a VERY small amount of soap. I believe Shelton is on course. Where I live, 80km from Sevilla, the sun is shining , but inside my house the humidity is around 70%. That muffles the sound and when I leave my personal instruments in my workshop, which is around 55% these days, I can clearly hear a difference.

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