Performing in Front of an Audience

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Ramin

Posts: 103
Joined: Mar. 15 2005
From: Toronto, Canada

Performing in Front of an Audience

Hi everybody,

After a year and a half of studying Flamenco guitar, during which I have resisted playing even in front of friends & family, I think it is time for me to start playing in public. My first public appearance was last Sunday when I played Paco Pena's Tarantas (from his book Toques Flamencos, just so you know I'm a beginner). Needless to say it was a near-disaster performance with the nerves being in full control! Im just glad I did perform and managed to finish the piece.

Now that I have decided to get more serious with Flamenco, I need your advice as how I can best prepare myself to play in front of people. I have read a lot of books on mental focus, relaxation, NLP, etc. And, I know that I have to go through many disasterous performances to become comfortable playing in front of public. But I still want to benefit from your valuable knowledge & experiences in this matter, as many of you play guitar for a living, or have already past the hurdle I'm now facing.

I would greatly appreciate if I could have your thoughts, no matter how trivial they may seem on the surface, on this subject. I would like to thank those who respond, even if they haven't yet loaded their profile photos

, in advance!

Ramin

_____________________________

What we are today comes from out thoughts of yesterday and our present thoughts build our life tomorrow: our life is the creation of our mind.
-Buddha

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 19:44:51

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

I have no problem playing as long as im not playing SOLO flamenco guitar

With a band or only as a duo i hardly get any bad nerves at all, only positive
and fun nerves.

Playing flamenco solo i just hate.

A first step to train your nerves could be to record. some folks screw up as soon as the press rec

It´s better training than you would belive.

Another werid idea is to put 4-5 chairs infront of you. then go into another room think all the time that it´s a consert. then walk out sitt down and play infront of the empty chairs.

ANOTHER IMORTANt THING. is to alway practice the piece from start to finnish without stopping for anything. In a real situation you can let a false not or a ****ed picado stop the music. If you always stop with every mistake it will become a bad habit.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 20:00:46

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

My personal thoughts on it.
I think performance anxiety comes from getting into the thought
process that everyone is judging you as you play. This makes you
overly self aware. You start to second guess everything.
You suddenly hear yourself in a different light.

The key is humility. To lose all ego, and not be afraid to screw up.
Once that fear of judgement goes away, you come back into that
thought pattern of, im playing my piece, and im having fun, cause
it sounds so good, to ME.

TK

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 20:06:04

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to duende)

after doing it enough you will gain confidence cause you realise that screwing up doesn´t hurt you. People will give you applause (and that feels good no matter how the piece went

)

somehow i feel that playing live makes your technique better and better.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 20:27:43

carlos soto

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

I think you need to practice like you are playing it live for others always, and of course practice that piece even when you are not with the guitar, with your mind. Feel the music and perform it, not just with the guitar. When at your momment of playing for a real audience the most important thing is too know what are your weakness and be very focused about that, in case you make a mistake you must not be surprised about it just make sure you don't stop or mess with the flow of the piece, just be confortable and knowing that you are doing your best will give you nothing to nervous about. I think the key momments that you should be specially focused have to be the beginning and the end, the rest will be very easy if you practice well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 20:27:51

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

The key is humility. To lose all ego, and not be afraid to screw up.

Although I don't play in public, Todd's statement rings true..
When I saw Paco perform in Edinburgh earlier this year, he screwed up a few times and just dismissed it with a smile and got on to the next bit.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 21:41:11

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

I also havent play in public yet, but when I play in front of listeners, I try to decrease my expectations; when your playing with the aim to deliver the world's greatest, perfect guitar performance youll more likely screw up.
Imagine your performance as just a hopefully nice time for you and your audience. Or at least try to look like you would think that

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 22:10:17

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

I have gone from total stage fright to having it pretty well under control. My worst moment was a college classical guitar recital when I forgot the 2nd note of Bach's Cello Prelude #1. I remembered the first, but I crashed and burned on the second note! That's a short piece. Nowadays, I play in front of people several times a week, and it rarely bothers me even if they sit right in front of me and stare at my hands. What is the difference? Experience.

Start in a group. Like Henrik said, you can hide in a group. But step out...play a solo...move a little so people watch you even if you're just strumming a simple rumba. Play one solo piece...even if its only a minute long. If you're this much of a beginner that Tarantas is WAY too hard for you, sorry to say. Well, at least I think it would make it easier on you if you chose something shorter and less complicated. Scale it back and only play something in front of people if you can play it with your eyes closed and upside down.

Play it for your best friend/girlfriend/mother until you have no fright. Then to your next best friend, relatives, keep getting a larger circle. Each step is tough, but once you master it, you have learned and grown.

My last recital was last year and I performed well. I didn't mess up, had a good time, and remembered the whole thing.

_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ

Arizona Wedding Music Guitar

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2005 22:26:23

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK
The key is humility. To lose all ego, and not be afraid to screw up.
Once that fear of judgement goes away, you come back into that
thought pattern of, im playing my piece, and im having fun, cause
it sounds so good, to ME.

Thats a great tip. I said this a while back on the foro and someone said "what do you mean lose your ego - people like PDL, Segovia etc all have big egos..." missing the point. I guess its a language thing, but I know exactly what Todd means.

Lots of other good tips here too - Henriks/Carlos stuff about practicing performing is very useful. I used to work through pieces imagining the neighbours were all listening closely at the wall. Why? Because it gets you used to the feeling of being watched (or listened too). That stuff about playing and not stopping is on the money too. Its a bad habit to stop and try and rectify mistakes in the middle of a piece when you practice, all you are doing is conditioning yourself to accept "THIS IS THE BIT WHERE I **** UP"

As Mike says, use every opportunity to perform in front of people. Keep a guitar in your living room, pick it up and play when someone visits. Keep it casual, not like a big performance or anything, but like "can I just play you something I am working on". The more it becomes natural to play in front of people, the less the nerves become an issue.

Several years on as a soloist I still get nerves/adrenalin, but know it is of no consequence as it wil not affect my playing. In fact, if I am tired a shot of adrenalin will help keep me on my toes.

One thing I would add that hasn't been mentioned is the preparation of solo pieces. All very well going through the mechanics of it, but there is so much more you can do to solidify it. Can you sing/hum the melody from start to finish? Could you close your eyes and vuisualise your fingers playing through it all? These kind of memorisation/concentration techniques mean you are not just relying on muscle memory to get through the piece. Classical virtuoso David Russel (IMO, probably the finest now that Bream has retired) has a whole bag of tricks like this he uses.

PS. Busk! This is a great way to get performing experience, no one will complain if you screw up and getting money thrown in your case will do your confidence the world of good.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2005 9:03:32

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

Can't relate with guitar first hand but I worked with Clive Gates (New Musik keyboards - Living by numbers - big hit 1981). Clive has composed and been a session man with many world famous stars for 25 years. His advice was to perform your first gigs in front of students. I saw a guitarist perform at Warwick university. Bluntly he was c**p. Lots of obvious errors. But they called for two encores. It was Clives experience that students will forgive everything. They just want a good time

I guess audience selection (type and size) and a familiar environment are important

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2005 9:42:01

Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

Volunteer to do concerts at retirement homes, go to open mikes, do background music jobs, take every opportunity to perform. Experience is what will improve your performance. And most importantly, learn the music so well you could play it in your sleep. My first flamenco guitar teacher, who gave solo concerts and accompanied great dancers, said learn the music 200%, because you will lose some when you are in front of an audience. If you start at 100%, he said, and lose 25 percent in nerves, you will be performing at only 75% which will not cut it. Sounds simplistic, but it works.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2005 16:45:40

carlos soto

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

Mark that's very true, you will never perform for an audience the way you do it at home, you become half of what you are if you are a beginner and to really match up those levels to be the same you need to have a lot of experience playing under a lot of different situations.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2005 17:56:59

larone

Posts: 242
Joined: Nov. 19 2004

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

I'm addicted to performing live. I've been doing it for about 12 years in many different styles. I love playing flamenco especially because alot of people haven't heard it or seen it being done live and they have a great appreciation for it.
I think we are our worst enemy. Any dought in your mind is a negative thing. You must be comfortable with the music to the point that it just flows, and you can almost just pretend your watching yourself playing the piece (spooky out of body experience sort of stuff) Realise that there isn't alot of people playing flamenco so you'll always be forgiven for making mistakes. I'm assuming you're HUMAN?????? so mistakes are always going to be there, it took me a long time to realise that the 1 or 2 big bad notes i hit were surround by hundreds of good ones. SO WHO CARES. Smile, laugh and move on. Don't let mistakes ruin the rest of the music. Fun is the reason we do this, not pain and torture (that's for the practice room LOL

)
Hope that helps.

Larone

PS: I played in front of about 7,000 recently........WHAT A RUSH!!!!! it just makes me want to keep going for ten life times. Muso life is the best

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2005 7:19:07

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2005 16:55:31

Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Performing in Front of an Audience (in reply to Ramin)

Ramin,

Find a place to play where people are just walking by, maybe a university or a park or some kind of public place. This will get you used to playing in front of people, but without them or you comitting to a formal setting. When you do this, train yourself to keep focused on the coming parts of whatever you're playing, but don't get hung up on mistakes or worrying about anything.

I have a spot at a university where the acoustics are nice and 10 or 15 people walk by an hour. Playing there helps me get used to having an audience, not to mention the occasional professor who's working on a Saturday or Sunday. Students usually really like to walk by, sometimes one will stop and sit and read or watch. This is a really good way to get used to playing in front of people.

A great book to read is The Natural Classical Guitar, by Lee Ryan. The principles are easily applied to flamenco.

Try it.

Good luck,

Anthony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 10 2005 5:10:49