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Why are my fingers SO much faster at picado if I could reverse my hand???? You'll see in the video, backwards hand = fast fingers. Regular hand = much slower..... Is this true for you guys?? Why is this???? Can I somehow utilize this information to make my picado faster???? The fast twitch muscles are obviously there............
yes interesting ......it works with me too , i think it to do with contracting or extending the muscles that operate your fingers .. some people think that there are muscles in the fingers that do this ., but no ...the muscles in question are in your palm and forearm .....
maybe some anatomy may help .....here on good ole Wikipedofile..
scroll down a bit to where it says ..MUSCLES .. that part may be of interest ....
So if I have it right, the extensor muscles in my forearm have more fast twitch fibers then my flexors??? Actually, kind of makes sense.....Flexors are evolutionarily(that a word?) used for gripping so they're probably not so much fast twitch as they are strong. Then why are extensors so fast???
Every mammal has effectively two sides to their bodies. Dorsal and ulnar. One side faces the sun and the other the earth.
Put your hand on a table palm (ulnar side) down and hairy (dorsal side) up. Now look at it, think of it as a tiny animal at the dawn of life.
In order for it to move around and gather resources it has to escape gravity so it needs to strengthen which side first ? Well the dorsal side of course, so muscles with attachments on this side develop first and stronger. Yes not just first and faster but also stronger, much much stonger. It takes a lot more power to jump than to crouch.
It only feels like your flexers are stronger because you feel yourself make more effort. If you think about this then that should tell you something.
If you are still not convinced then think about how a discus is thrown or the fact that all high jumpers jump backwards. Or how when people are electrocuted they are thrown away (because their stronger dorsal side wins when their whole musculature spasms at once)
Or chopping wood. You give the axe head energy when your extensors throw it up and then you try and channel this energy by using your whole body coordination to allow a smooth arc so as not to inhibit acceleration with gravity. If you shorten the arc (by using your flexors,which can only shorten your arms) then the axehead will not achieve optimum velocity and the blow will be less effective.
Anyway a lack of speed in repetition can only helped by improving coordination as both sets of muscles are involved. The actions are REPEATED.
Confusion about muscular coordination and functional strength and how the body works is greatly assisted by QVC and visits to the gym.
I now await the inevitable recommendations of various absurd gadgetry with the earnest expert testimonials which always accompany them. I at least admit that I am making it up (although if I were self reliant I would have consulted a librarian apparently).
I'm the same speed both ways as far as I can tell.
You're both weird!
JK, I wonder if being pretty high level players with pretty strong picadors has something to do with this though???? Maybe if I had a more mature picado they would be the same speed???
quote:
(As usual I am making this up but here goes).
Every mammal has effectively two sides to their bodies. Dorsal and ulnar. One side faces the sun and the other the earth.
Put your hand on a table palm (ulnar side) down and hairy (dorsal side) up. Now look at it, think of it as a tiny animal at the dawn of life.
In order for it to move around and gather resources it has to escape gravity so it needs to strengthen which side first ? Well the dorsal side of course, so muscles with attachments on this side develop first and stronger. Yes not just first and faster but also stronger, much much stonger. It takes a lot more power to jump than to crouch.
It only feels like your flexers are stronger because you feel yourself make more effort. If you think about this then that should tell you something.
If you are still not convinced then think about how a discus is thrown or the fact that all high jumpers jump backwards. Or how when people are electrocuted they are thrown away (because their stronger dorsal side wins when their whole musculature spasms at once)
Alright, I'm not buying this but imma tell you why.
#1, you made it up, it was the first words you said! lol #2, I put this theory into concept, it is NOT easier to push the weight using extensor muscles, it was much easier with the flexor muscles. I know it's not the most scientific of tests but it felt fairly obvious to my finger. Maybe your theory can hold true for other parts of the body but for fingers alone, I think our gripping muscles are stronger AND by nature slightly slower. #3, Did I really just make a video about a finger pushing a weight??? I must be high…….
I'm the same speed both ways as far as I can tell.
Quick, Ramzi, how many muscles are there in the hand?!
Funny one that. The tough thick tissue of the palm actually performs the function of muscle (bringing the hand to rest in a gentle cup) it will also store the consequences of strain by tightening the fascia which also seems like muscular pain.
All of the variously unwise stretching I have seen focuses on the hands and the joints. When stretching should focus on muscles.
Len when muscles extend your finger can occupy a widening circle of potential positions, when they flex this narrows. Thus when you flex you feel greater strength (and greater leverage) and when you extend you feel increasingly powerless.
I am sure Len that you know that in your experiment you were in both instances using the rest of your body and not your fingers.Although I appreciated the brief moments where you tried to be honest. If you want a valid experiment you will need to....
1. Staple (not tie,that would be a less engaging video) your forearm to a table. 2. Superglue your palm to the table. 3. Build a cradle to direct the movement of the finger in a single two dimensional plane (to avoid the necessity for lateral support-the ground often performs this task by the way) 4. Slip on some leather johdpurs and that mask you showed me. 5. Superglue your other hand to the table. 6. Await further instruction.
The backward movement is not faster, it just appears to be faster. The key to the faster appearance is the distance in the height of the movement. In the backward movement you lift the fingers less higher than in the foreward way. In the foreward direction you lift the fingers much higher what´s taking more time. Just check it. I did. Lifting the fingers in the foreward direction just a little bit makes the speed sounding equal.
Here is the google search for relative strength of flexors and extensors. It seems that quite a lot of work has been done on knees.
If you think this doesn't relate to fingers then please remember that a finger is just a tiny leg.
And to be honest I don't really make that much up I just cant be bothered quoting sources as the hope is that a good argument can stand on its own two fingertips.
Every mammal has effectively two sides to their bodies. Dorsal and ulnar. One side faces the sun and the other the earth.
As far as I know the opposite of dorsal is ventral. We can refer to the back of the hand as the dorsal, but the opposite would then be the palmar.
Dorsal faces the sun in animals that walk around on 4 legs, but in humans the dorsum is the back, so we would have to lie on our fronts for our dorsum to be towards the sun.
The ulna is a bone in the forearm. The other bone in the forearm is the radius.
In standard anatomical position the ulna is closest to the body, which is called medial, while the radius is further from the body, which is called lateral.
quote:
In order for it to move around and gather resources it has to escape gravity so it needs to strengthen which side first ? Well the dorsal side of course, so muscles with attachments on this side develop first and stronger. Yes not just first and faster but also stronger, much much stonger. It takes a lot more power to jump than to crouch.
It only feels like your flexers are stronger because you feel yourself make more effort. If you think about this then that should tell you something.
It is not possible to "escape" gravity unless you go up into space. Because we are in it all the time, and have been throughout evolution we have come up with a much better solution to holding ourselves up than burning energy using our muscles. That solution is bones. Standing requires very, very little muscular effort, because the weight of the body is supported by the bones.
I think that where the hand is concerned the flexors are stronger, and I assume this is because grasping a branch or an axe needs more strength than letting it go.
quote:
Or chopping wood. You give the axe head energy when your extensors throw it up and then you try and channel this energy by using your whole body coordination to allow a smooth arc so as not to inhibit acceleration with gravity. If you shorten the arc (by using your flexors,which can only shorten your arms) then the axehead will not achieve optimum velocity and the blow will be less effective.
How much wood do you chop? If you merely lift an axe, even a really heavy one, and then let it fall under gravity alone you are not going to split many logs, unless they are made of balsa wood! You have to add muscular force to the force of gravity if you want to chop wood.
Relative strength of flexors to extensors is 4.5to1. Making me 450% wrong. Notably in the foot the relative strengths are reversed. Turns out my guess that our genetic past would continue to outweigh functional demands was a little.......fishy.
Relative strength of flexors to extensors is 4.5to1. Making me 450% wrong.
I knew my weight experiment wasn't total BS! lolol.
Well, my theory was that flexors had more slow twitch muscle fibers and extensors had more fast twitch. This new info doesn't confirm that but supports it................kind of lol The thought is that something that's "stronger" would have more slow twitch fibers.........
Wll I did get up to 73, bt it was sounding robotic and russian, so I slowed it down to to between 9 and 12 and my mouse clicks had a lot more aire and duende
Wll I did get up to 73, bt it was sounding robotic and russian, so I slowed it down to to between 9 and 12 and my mouse clicks had a lot more aire and duende
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JK, I wonder if being pretty high level players with pretty strong picadors has something to do with this though???? Maybe if I had a more mature picado they would be the same speed??? 
I'll keep investigating this in my free time though. Fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers of the hand............. 
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