Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
I like flamenco piano a lot. I got a Diego Amador CD in past and he also plays in this style. They copy much the strokes which the guitar does, so it allways sounds a bit like they transposed guitar-compositions for the piano, but if you want to retranspose to guitar you see its not that easy. ^^
Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
Amazingly, with the piano being a more traditional timbre in jazz than nylon guitar, this sounds VERY much like jazz... And very, very cool! Thanks for sharing this.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to rpguitar)
Hm Roger, i dont know much about Jazz. But i was positively surprised that this piano player didnt try to change the music to his playing (like many musicians sadly do with flamenco), but his playing to the music. If you hear close enough - as Doit pointed out - its almost note for note the same thing a guitar player would play. Especially Rythmically. Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.
@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.
Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.
Right, no doubt - I really mean the chord voicings. The dissonant flatted ninths and such sound totally different on a piano, and bring jazz comping to mind.
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.
Hey Deniz,
Do a google for Pablo Ruben Maldonado. We recorded his first album called "Almanjayar' for him a few years back which should be available any day now on our andalamusica cdbaby page. You can find him on youtube and he also has a myspace page where you can listen to his music. He has won various awards for his playing and composing. One critic said he made the piano sound like a guitar with 300 strings ( or however many strings a piano has !!! ). He was also a guest player on the Taller de Compás album, the track he recorded 'Jam de Pablo', was improvised in the studio, lasts 8 minutes and I think it's astounding. You can hear it on our myspace page. www.myspace.com/andalamusica
Hope you enjoy, tell me what you think. We're recording his second album at the moment and I'm promoting him, trying to get him gigs at jazz or flamenco festivals for next year. So if anyone knows of anything in their town let me know.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
Now that i finally listen to a non guitar music i come to think... on guitar the notes are often "cut" short before they can ring out. I dont mean sustain. I mean the guitar is a more staccato kind of instrument. To my ear, even great guitarrists... they cant play as legato as a violin or piano player. Left hand is one issue, another one is coordination of left and right hand.
Think of an example: in solea there is this figure Am-G-F-E with barred chords arpegiated. Lets say pa (together) mipima and then change the chord. The last a stroke is always a hear cutted off. This is just a basic example where I have some problems. But basically the same thing goes for other more complex figures, where even the best players dont sound as legato as it should be IMO.
And another thing is string noise. Often the guitar sounds like this: *chkkk* - tone. When the player touches the string with the nail first. This also happens the best players.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.
This is called a Foro Flamenco, anybody can read it and easily form a facile and wrong impression of flamenco. Do we really want to foster pseudoflamenco? Posters who have some knowledge should also have some responsibility.
Last night, I had the pleasure to hear Remedios Reyes (hermana de Antonio) accompanied by my favourite tocaor Joselito de Pura (sobrino de Silverio Herídia), in the Peña de Juan Villar. The night was dedicated to Patricia Valdés ( wife of Antonio), so the whole family was present, as was Juan Villar and many of his family. She put the whole Peña de pie.
When a gitano or gitana sings to their family is when the word "duende" can be understood. THIS is real flamenco, let us not confuse concepts. por favor.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
I recently found this album called Pianisimo Flamenco by Manolo Carrasco which has various Palos played on the Piano, though i have not given it a listen proper listen yet.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)
quote:
Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.
I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.
I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Ricardo)
With great respect to Ricardo, who knows flamenco and whom I consider a friend, it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.
Morante
P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present. The high point was when Conchita (82 years old and de Los Gitanillos de Cádiz) made an impromptu appearance. Accompanied by Joselito de Pura and the cante of Remedios Reyes and the baile of Patricia Valdés, she danced a pincelita of bulerías which made a mockery of present day dance.
Apart from her the only other high points were the cante of Alonso Núnez (Rancapino Hijo) and Ángel Pastor.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.
You mean to say 10% of us would not ??? Because they already are/live there or because they are beyond hope?
quote:
P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.
Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
quote:
P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.
Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.
I also had the chance to play for him many many years ago. I like to think of him as the first real cantaor I got to play for alone.
I hope he gets better! My prayers for him and his family.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)
quote:
90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.
If you can you get someone to cover my job for three months, and someone to provide full board and lodging for me in Jerez for three months I could probably stretch to the plane ticket....
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to mark indigo)
When I first went to Jerez, I was there for four months. I did not see any flamenco for the first three months. During the last month I was there, I went to a couple of tourist traps. You really have to know where to find it if you happen to be there when no feria is taking place.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Argaith)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Argaith
quote:
it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has
I agree, piano sound is to polished it lacks roughness. Perhaps its time someone designed a Flamenco piano!
Wouldn't you disqualify the guitar in a similar way if it was only known being played by classical musicians? I can't exclude a special piano might be an option but i know the piano as we know it can sound totally different when touched by different hands. During the 2003 queen elisabeth competition the grand piano sounded dull and terrible with every single attendant. How could they offer an instrument like that to the competitors? Until Severin von Eckardstein entered the stage being the last competitor. Suddenly the very same instrument sounded crisp and clear with no trace of the total lack of sound it suffered before. One could argue the flamenco guitar is different from a classical guitar as well, but over time players like Paco de Lucia initiated/favored a type of flamenco guitar that embraced the more lyrical possibilities of the classical guitar.... i believe Sanlucar ones played a classical Jose Ramirez guitar which didn't make him sound less flamenco (can't blame him since the best ones play and sound like a dream).
I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist that speaks the language of both the instrument and flamenco. All you need is someone who is able to translate the feeling of flamenco to that new paled of possibilities. Paco de Lucia already expressed his interest to play the piano in the 80ties. A piano is not a guitar and should find it's own way in expressing flamenco overtime. In the same way the guitar has developed it's position aside the human voice so can the piano.
Here are just a few of my favorite players, showing the possibilities of the instrument.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist skilled in both performing magic on a piano and speaking the language of flamenco.
RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)
Even when theyre playing phrygian scales it seems it loses some of its Moorish essence on the piano. It becomes more like a classical composer creating a study based on a Spanish dance than the actual Spanish dance.
After all the guitar evolved out of the Oud right there in the streets of Andalusia, while the piano was imported from northern Europe and imposed upon the people as a symbol of aristocratic Christian culture
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread