Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Full Version)

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XXX -> Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 3:07:29)



I found this at Toddks forum. checkout the Paco falsetas at 2:20 and 2:40.
Also checkout other piano buleria videos, they are all good!

Here is one with really cool breaks:



WOW!




Doitsujin -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 6:22:34)

I like flamenco piano a lot. I got a Diego Amador CD in past and he also plays in this style. They copy much the strokes which the guitar does, so it allways sounds a bit like they transposed guitar-compositions for the piano, but if you want to retranspose to guitar you see its not that easy. ^^

Great music anyway.




rpguitar -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 6:37:31)

Amazingly, with the piano being a more traditional timbre in jazz than nylon guitar, this sounds VERY much like jazz... And very, very cool! Thanks for sharing this.

Roger




XXX -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 7:02:29)

Hm Roger, i dont know much about Jazz. But i was positively surprised that this piano player didnt try to change the music to his playing (like many musicians sadly do with flamenco), but his playing to the music. If you hear close enough - as Doit pointed out - its almost note for note the same thing a guitar player would play. Especially Rythmically. Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.

@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.




Güiro -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 7:14:26)

I think there is a guy called Dorantes who also plays flamenco piano.




kovachian -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 7:19:49)

What??? He's supposed to be cradling the piano in his lap! This ain't true flamenco!!!




rpguitar -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 9 2008 19:37:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.



Right, no doubt - I really mean the chord voicings. The dissonant flatted ninths and such sound totally different on a piano, and bring jazz comping to mind.




Kate -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 10 2008 1:45:44)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.


Hey Deniz,

Do a google for Pablo Ruben Maldonado. We recorded his first album called "Almanjayar' for him a few years back which should be available any day now on our andalamusica cdbaby page. You can find him on youtube and he also has a myspace page where you can listen to his music. He has won various awards for his playing and composing. One critic said he made the piano sound like a guitar with 300 strings ( or however many strings a piano has !!! ). He was also a guest player on the Taller de Compás album, the track he recorded 'Jam de Pablo', was improvised in the studio, lasts 8 minutes and I think it's astounding. You can hear it on our myspace page. www.myspace.com/andalamusica

Hope you enjoy, tell me what you think. We're recording his second album at the moment and I'm promoting him, trying to get him gigs at jazz or flamenco festivals for next year. So if anyone knows of anything in their town let me know.

Kate




XXX -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Sep. 16 2008 2:06:00)

Now that i finally listen to a non guitar music i come to think...
on guitar the notes are often "cut" short before they can ring out. I dont mean sustain. I mean the guitar is a more staccato kind of instrument. To my ear, even great guitarrists... they cant play as legato as a violin or piano player. Left hand is one issue, another one is coordination of left and right hand.

Think of an example: in solea there is this figure Am-G-F-E with barred chords arpegiated. Lets say pa (together) mipima and then change the chord. The last a stroke is always a hear cutted off. This is just a basic example where I have some problems. But basically the same thing goes for other more complex figures, where even the best players dont sound as legato as it should be IMO.

And another thing is string noise. Often the guitar sounds like this: *chkkk* - tone. When the player touches the string with the nail first. This also happens the best players.




Hugh1919 -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 1:03:39)

Met him recently when he was in Toronto. Love his playing ...sounds very flamenco!




guitarbuddha -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 1:15:05)

GOOD BUMP !!!!




Morante -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 15:29:00)

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.

This is called a Foro Flamenco, anybody can read it and easily form a facile and wrong impression of flamenco. Do we really want to foster pseudoflamenco? Posters who have some knowledge should also have some responsibility.

Last night, I had the pleasure to hear Remedios Reyes (hermana de Antonio) accompanied by my favourite tocaor Joselito de Pura (sobrino de Silverio Herídia), in the Peña de Juan Villar. The night was dedicated to Patricia Valdés ( wife of Antonio), so the whole family was present, as was Juan Villar and many of his family. She put the whole Peña de pie.

When a gitano or gitana sings to their family is when the word "duende" can be understood. THIS is real flamenco, let us not confuse concepts. por favor.




Bliblablub -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 15:47:35)

I am pretty sure this is flamenco. Cante is flamenco too.




withinity -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 16:12:41)

I recently found this album called Pianisimo Flamenco by Manolo Carrasco which has various Palos played on the Piano, though i have not given it a listen proper listen yet.




Ricardo -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 17:38:17)

quote:

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.


I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 23:41:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.


I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.

Amen




guitarbuddha -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 19 2013 23:48:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

Amen



Yup, you hit the nail on the head there Mr Marlowe.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 20 2013 0:29:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Yup, you hit the nail on the head there Mr Marlowe.

And so well in compas :-)




Morante -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 20 2013 15:21:56)

With great respect to Ricardo, who knows flamenco and whom I consider a friend, it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.

Morante

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present. The high point was when Conchita (82 years old and de Los Gitanillos de Cádiz) made an impromptu appearance. Accompanied by Joselito de Pura and the cante of Remedios Reyes and the baile of Patricia Valdés, she danced a pincelita of bulerías which made a mockery of present day dance.

Apart from her the only other high points were the cante of Alonso Núnez (Rancapino Hijo) and Ángel Pastor.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 20 2013 22:46:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.

You mean to say 10% of us would not ??? Because they already are/live there or because they are beyond hope?

quote:

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.

Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.




Ricardo -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 21 2013 5:03:04)

quote:



quote:

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.

Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.


I also had the chance to play for him many many years ago. I like to think of him as the first real cantaor I got to play for alone.

I hope he gets better! My prayers for him and his family.

Ricardo




mark indigo -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 21 2013 12:29:20)

quote:

90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.


If you can you get someone to cover my job for three months, and someone to provide full board and lodging for me in Jerez for three months I could probably stretch to the plane ticket....[8D]




kenjo138 -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 31 2013 20:10:25)

When I first went to Jerez, I was there for four months. I did not see any flamenco for the first three months. During the last month I was there, I went to a couple of tourist traps. You really have to know where to find it if you happen to be there when no feria is taking place.




FredGuitarraOle -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 31 2013 23:47:56)

Alright guys, let's get to what really matters. Check out this girl, Ariadna Castellanos.

I almost died at 4:40...









FredGuitarraOle -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Oct. 31 2013 23:51:17)

She is so f*cking hot...




mark74 -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Nov. 1 2013 2:25:19)

I can't get into flamenco piano, it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has




Argaith -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Nov. 1 2013 9:31:05)

quote:

it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has


I agree, piano sound is to polished it lacks roughness.
Perhaps its time someone designed a Flamenco piano! [:D]




Erik van Goch -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Nov. 1 2013 14:26:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

quote:

it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has


I agree, piano sound is to polished it lacks roughness.
Perhaps its time someone designed a Flamenco piano! [:D]


Wouldn't you disqualify the guitar in a similar way if it was only known being played by classical musicians? I can't exclude a special piano might be an option but i know the piano as we know it can sound totally different when touched by different hands. During the 2003 queen elisabeth competition the grand piano sounded dull and terrible with every single attendant. How could they offer an instrument like that to the competitors? Until Severin von Eckardstein entered the stage being the last competitor. Suddenly the very same instrument sounded crisp and clear with no trace of the total lack of sound it suffered before.
One could argue the flamenco guitar is different from a classical guitar as well, but over time players like Paco de Lucia initiated/favored a type of flamenco guitar that embraced the more lyrical possibilities of the classical guitar.... i believe Sanlucar ones played a classical Jose Ramirez guitar which didn't make him sound less flamenco (can't blame him since the best ones play and sound like a dream).

I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist that speaks the language of both the instrument and flamenco. All you need is someone who is able to translate the feeling of flamenco to that new paled of possibilities. Paco de Lucia already expressed his interest to play the piano in the 80ties. A piano is not a guitar and should find it's own way in expressing flamenco overtime. In the same way the guitar has developed it's position aside the human voice so can the piano.

Here are just a few of my favorite players, showing the possibilities of the instrument.









Bliblablub -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Nov. 1 2013 14:52:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist skilled in both performing magic on a piano and speaking the language of flamenco.






mark74 -> RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (Nov. 1 2013 18:55:56)

Even when theyre playing phrygian scales it seems it loses some of its Moorish essence on the piano. It becomes more like a classical composer creating a study based on a Spanish dance than the actual Spanish dance.

After all the guitar evolved out of the Oud right there in the streets of Andalusia, while the piano was imported from northern Europe and imposed upon the people as a symbol of aristocratic Christian culture




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