For anyone who's built the Romanillos design

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

For anyone who's built the Romanillo...

Going by the plans for the Romanillos classical, it doesn't appear that he scallops the ends of his braces. They appear only to be shaped but left square at the ends. Is this right?

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 18:50:46

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

It would depend entirely on which Romanillos guitar the plans are based. He didn't always do things the same way.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2013 18:56:29

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

By 1973 Romanillos himself recognized five different design iterations, based on various instruments he had examined. Of the two that I'm familiar with, the fourth design iteration was "based on" a 1950 Hauser. To what extent it followed the Hauser, I don't know. The ends of the fan braces are scalloped on at least one of this series, #407 from 1973.

The fifth iteration began with Bream's famous #501, based on a 1933 Hauser that belonged to Sergio Abreu. Sergio and his brother Eduardo performed as a duo. Sergio asked Romanillos to make a copy of his Hauser, and sent a detailed drawing from Brazil.

According to Kevin Aram, who saw the drawing, it was very detailed. He mentions that tiny asymmetries in the fan bracing pattern were depicted on the drawing. Aram attributed the microscopic asymmetries not to some arcane design process by Hauser, but to the braces slipping very slightly when they were clamped for gluing. Who knows?

Since Romanillos has said that Bream's guitar was a "trial run" for Abreu's, I would think he had followed the drawing pretty faithfully. Romanillos did remark that he put more doming in the top of #501, to "get more tension into my guitars."

After 1973, Romanillos developed at least one other design, somewhat larger than the 5xx series plantilla. Whether that was the end of the evolutionary process, I don't know.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 2:53:38

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

I have a feeling that you are talking about the Harmonic bars on the 1973 Bream design and not the braces (correct me if I´m wrong)
The fan braces are shaped in a special way that is easy to see on the plan

This photo (found on the web) shows the harmonic bars on the 1973 guitar:
Besides, I think there´s a picture of the harmonic bars on the plan

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 8:15:20

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I have a feeling that you are talking about the Harmonic bars on the 1973 Bream design and not the braces (correct me if I´m wrong)
The fan braces are shaped in a special way that is easy to see on the plan

Hi Anders,

I was in fact talking about the braces but after reviewing the plan, the harmonic bars are also not scalloped. At least on the plan. They are left straight and square at the ends. Your photo actually shows the braces scalloped so I guess it depends on the builder and a few other variables.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 12:10:43

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

Tom,
In Courtnall's book, there are two soundboard plans for a Romanillos guitar. Both do not show scallop ends, nor the harmonic brace ends. ( Of course you may already have this book.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 13:57:26

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to Wayne Brown)

Hi Wayne. Thanks. Yes I got this book too. I guess I will leave them as in the plans.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 17:40:08

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

Your photo actually shows the braces scalloped so I guess it depends on the builder and a few other variables.

Tom, you havent taken a good look on the plan. The shape of the FAN BRACES are not scalloped on the original. They are shaped like an aeroplane wing from the harmonic bar to the bottom.
Take a good look at the plan. The SIDE view of the box. There you can see the shape of the braces.

The photo of the harmonic bars is from some dudes variation of the 1973 guitar. It has scalloped fan braces. The original fanbraces are shaped very differently as you see on this photo

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 18:15:13

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

See it's like talking about religion.

I saw a Reyes from the 70's that had no scalloping, just a bit of a diagonal lop off the end of the brace.

I also build the "airfoil" braces into a seven string, it basically works, you just have to do each in a few times to get the hang of the particular details.

The one I made up recently just got strung up yesterday, it's crazy sounding.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 18:22:23

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

Well I'll be! I missed that the braces are tapered. I don't have the plan, just Courtnall's book. Fig. 8-13 shows the braces tapered like Anders described.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2013 23:51:22

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Tom, you havent taken a good look on the plan. The shape of the FAN BRACES are not scalloped on the original. They are shaped like an aeroplane wing from the harmonic bar to the bottom.
Take a good look at the plan. The SIDE view of the box. There you can see the shape of the braces.

Aha! thank you for pointing this out Anders. I totally overlooked this page. I was only studying the page that shows the bracing pattern and usually when fans are scalloped, they will have a little "U" shape drawn where the scallop begins. These plans don't have that. Now I know why. The whole fan is tapered. Thank you again my friend.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2013 0:26:30

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

Its not an easy build Tom. The shape of the fan braces is not that easy to get right.
The 4 front braces and the 2 closing struts are shown without scalloping the ends.
I think thats an error in the plan. I scallopped 15mm each end on the ones I built and I think thats about standard.
My second was tested by a player who had an original Romanillos and he said that mine had the same soundcharacteristics and the same pulsation. Very strong trebles with lots of sustain and high harmonics and basses which are very precise and with a ton of projection. but also somehow dry sounding.
Even though its amall, its a very powerfull guitar design that IMO requires a good level of technique in order to get the best out of it.
Use a good stiff soundboard and make it thin in order to make the basses come out.
good luck

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2013 7:37:47

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Its not an easy build Tom. The shape of the fan braces is not that easy to get right.
The 4 front braces and the 2 closing struts are shown without scalloping the ends.
I think thats an error in the plan. I scallopped 15mm each end on the ones I built and I think thats about standard.
My second was tested by a player who had an original Romanillos and he said that mine had the same soundcharacteristics and the same pulsation. Very strong trebles with lots of sustain and high harmonics and basses which are very precise and with a ton of projection. but also somehow dry sounding.
Even though its amall, its a very powerfull guitar design that IMO requires a good level of technique in order to get the best out of it.
Use a good stiff soundboard and make it thin in order to make the basses come out.
good luck

I was surprised to see how narrow the width of this instrument is. A lot like a flamenco. I'm used to seeing wide bodied classicals.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2013 13:00:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

Its smaller than most flamencos.
Romanillos was a big fan of Torres.
The Hernandez and Aguado 6 fan brace design is like my flamenco plantilla and just a bit thicker. A very nice design.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2013 16:13:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: For anyone who's built the Roman... (in reply to TANúñez)

As carl sagan said "the penalty of projection" from a higher dimensional concept to a lower one. (3D design to 2D plans on paper). And he was only talking about the large scale structure of the expanding universe, nothing as complex as a guitar.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2013 20:38:12