For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Full Version)

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TANúñez -> For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 11 2013 18:50:46)

Going by the plans for the Romanillos classical, it doesn't appear that he scallops the ends of his braces. They appear only to be shaped but left square at the ends. Is this right?



C. Vega -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 11 2013 18:56:29)

It would depend entirely on which Romanillos guitar the plans are based. He didn't always do things the same way.



Richard Jernigan -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 2:53:38)

By 1973 Romanillos himself recognized five different design iterations, based on various instruments he had examined. Of the two that I'm familiar with, the fourth design iteration was "based on" a 1950 Hauser. To what extent it followed the Hauser, I don't know. The ends of the fan braces are scalloped on at least one of this series, #407 from 1973.

The fifth iteration began with Bream's famous #501, based on a 1933 Hauser that belonged to Sergio Abreu. Sergio and his brother Eduardo performed as a duo. Sergio asked Romanillos to make a copy of his Hauser, and sent a detailed drawing from Brazil.

According to Kevin Aram, who saw the drawing, it was very detailed. He mentions that tiny asymmetries in the fan bracing pattern were depicted on the drawing. Aram attributed the microscopic asymmetries not to some arcane design process by Hauser, but to the braces slipping very slightly when they were clamped for gluing. Who knows?

Since Romanillos has said that Bream's guitar was a "trial run" for Abreu's, I would think he had followed the drawing pretty faithfully. Romanillos did remark that he put more doming in the top of #501, to "get more tension into my guitars."

After 1973, Romanillos developed at least one other design, somewhat larger than the 5xx series plantilla. Whether that was the end of the evolutionary process, I don't know.

RNJ



Anders Eliasson -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 8:15:20)

I have a feeling that you are talking about the Harmonic bars on the 1973 Bream design and not the braces (correct me if I´m wrong)
The fan braces are shaped in a special way that is easy to see on the plan

This photo (found on the web) shows the harmonic bars on the 1973 guitar:
Besides, I think there´s a picture of the harmonic bars on the plan



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



TANúñez -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 12:10:43)

quote:

I have a feeling that you are talking about the Harmonic bars on the 1973 Bream design and not the braces (correct me if I´m wrong)
The fan braces are shaped in a special way that is easy to see on the plan


Hi Anders,

I was in fact talking about the braces but after reviewing the plan, the harmonic bars are also not scalloped. At least on the plan. They are left straight and square at the ends. Your photo actually shows the braces scalloped so I guess it depends on the builder and a few other variables.



Wayne Brown -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 13:57:26)

Tom,
In Courtnall's book, there are two soundboard plans for a Romanillos guitar. Both do not show scallop ends, nor the harmonic brace ends. ( Of course you may already have this book.)



TANúñez -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 17:40:08)

Hi Wayne. Thanks. Yes I got this book too. I guess I will leave them as in the plans.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 18:15:13)

quote:

Your photo actually shows the braces scalloped so I guess it depends on the builder and a few other variables.


Tom, you havent taken a good look on the plan. The shape of the FAN BRACES are not scalloped on the original. They are shaped like an aeroplane wing from the harmonic bar to the bottom.
Take a good look at the plan. The SIDE view of the box. There you can see the shape of the braces.



The photo of the harmonic bars is from some dudes variation of the 1973 guitar. It has scalloped fan braces. The original fanbraces are shaped very differently as you see on this photo

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



estebanana -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 18:22:23)

See it's like talking about religion. [:D]

I saw a Reyes from the 70's that had no scalloping, just a bit of a diagonal lop off the end of the brace.

I also build the "airfoil" braces into a seven string, it basically works, you just have to do each in a few times to get the hang of the particular details.

The one I made up recently just got strung up yesterday, it's crazy sounding.



Wayne Brown -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 12 2013 23:51:22)

Well I'll be! I missed that the braces are tapered. I don't have the plan, just Courtnall's book. Fig. 8-13 shows the braces tapered like Anders described.



TANúñez -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 0:26:30)

quote:

Tom, you havent taken a good look on the plan. The shape of the FAN BRACES are not scalloped on the original. They are shaped like an aeroplane wing from the harmonic bar to the bottom.
Take a good look at the plan. The SIDE view of the box. There you can see the shape of the braces.


Aha! thank you for pointing this out Anders. I totally overlooked this page. I was only studying the page that shows the bracing pattern and usually when fans are scalloped, they will have a little "U" shape drawn where the scallop begins. These plans don't have that. Now I know why. The whole fan is tapered. Thank you again my friend.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 7:37:47)

Its not an easy build Tom. The shape of the fan braces is not that easy to get right.
The 4 front braces and the 2 closing struts are shown without scalloping the ends.
I think thats an error in the plan. I scallopped 15mm each end on the ones I built and I think thats about standard.
My second was tested by a player who had an original Romanillos and he said that mine had the same soundcharacteristics and the same pulsation. Very strong trebles with lots of sustain and high harmonics and basses which are very precise and with a ton of projection. but also somehow dry sounding.
Even though its amall, its a very powerfull guitar design that IMO requires a good level of technique in order to get the best out of it.
Use a good stiff soundboard and make it thin in order to make the basses come out.
good luck



TANúñez -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 13:00:20)

quote:


Its not an easy build Tom. The shape of the fan braces is not that easy to get right.
The 4 front braces and the 2 closing struts are shown without scalloping the ends.
I think thats an error in the plan. I scallopped 15mm each end on the ones I built and I think thats about standard.
My second was tested by a player who had an original Romanillos and he said that mine had the same soundcharacteristics and the same pulsation. Very strong trebles with lots of sustain and high harmonics and basses which are very precise and with a ton of projection. but also somehow dry sounding.
Even though its amall, its a very powerfull guitar design that IMO requires a good level of technique in order to get the best out of it.
Use a good stiff soundboard and make it thin in order to make the basses come out.
good luck


I was surprised to see how narrow the width of this instrument is. A lot like a flamenco. I'm used to seeing wide bodied classicals.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 16:13:04)

Its smaller than most flamencos.
Romanillos was a big fan of Torres.
The Hernandez and Aguado 6 fan brace design is like my flamenco plantilla and just a bit thicker. A very nice design.



Ricardo -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 20:38:12)

As carl sagan said "the penalty of projection" from a higher dimensional concept to a lower one. (3D design to 2D plans on paper). And he was only talking about the large scale structure of the expanding universe, nothing as complex as a guitar. [:D]



TANúñez -> RE: For anyone who's built the Romanillos design (Apr. 13 2013 21:44:54)

Anders did you get my reply to your email?



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