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RE: Double-body guitars?   You are logged in as Guest
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TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to estebanana) 
Looks like a very involved process. Thanks for sharing!

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 25 2012 23:40:22
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
John's work is very interesting; any shots of the back?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2012 3:41:05
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

John Shelton emailed these shots to me. I resized them and cropped them.
Thank you John for sharing.


Gracias, Stephen and John:

Always interesting to see hand-built guitars during construction.

Does anyone know who first came up with this 'double-body' concept, and when?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2012 12:54:38
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy
Does anyone know who first came up with this 'double-body' concept, and when?

According to Richard Brune it was possibly from the Manuel Ramirez shop probably built by Santos. There's an example from 1908.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2012 14:28:50
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
I've been drooling over John's double bodied guitars since I heard that clip of Manuel Lopez Ramos on his site. Just magnificient!

http://www.shelton-farretta.org/video%20folder/videos.html

John's normal blancas are very nice as well.

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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2012 17:02:52
 
estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
I like the classical double body in the video. Very nice sounding.

This model does look a bit difficult to build.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 26 2012 19:45:00
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

According to Richard Brune it was possibly from the Manuel Ramirez shop probably built by Santos. There's an example from 1908.


Really!

So they have been around for more than 100 years. Yet there seem to be so few of them available?

I wonder why. Surely it can not just be the extra weight?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2012 20:06:33
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

So they have been around for more than 100 years. Yet there seem to be so few of them available?

I wonder why. Surely it can not just be the extra weight?

Might have something to do with how difficult they are to make. The other thing about them is they are not "intimate" like a traditional guitar. The sound is projected away from the player and I guarantee it takes a while to get used to the effect. Doubles shine in big dead spaces but in small venues like a living room it's not always easy to hear the difference.

We make very few of them since I generally discourage casual players from buying them. We make more money selling traditional guitars and prefer to limit the doubles to professionals.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2012 23:53:22
 
johnguitar

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
Britguy,
Although the effect might well be very different, the motivation for having invented the
double body or the double back might be the same. So once Vicente Arias started making
double backs it was a small step for Ramirez to add double sides.
http://www.granadaexpert.com/johnray/the-double-back/
And
http://www.granadaexpert.com/johnray/article-in-roseta/

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John Ray
https://www.johnguitar.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2012 8:41:45
 
Jim Kirby

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jul. 14 2011
From: Newark, DE, USA

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

The sound is projected away from the player and I guarantee it takes a while to get used to the effect. Doubles shine in big dead spaces but in small venues like a living room it's not always easy to hear the difference.


So how does it compare to more modern attempts like double tops or the Smallman-type structure? Is it a design that didn't take off but actually stands up to these other attempts, or is its rarity compared to the others warranted?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2012 12:38:31
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to Jim Kirby) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Kirby

So how does it compare to more modern attempts like double tops or the Smallman-type structure? Is it a design that didn't take off but actually stands up to these other attempts, or is its rarity compared to the others warranted?

I can't comment on any comparison since I've never played a Smallman or double top guitar.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2012 14:36:28
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

I can't comment on any comparison since I've never played a Smallman or double top guitar.


Another question John, is the internal guitar made smaller or is the shell made slightly larger?

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2012 23:18:01
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to HolyEvil) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

Another question John, is the internal guitar made smaller or is the shell made slightly larger?


The internal guitar is very shallow. Almost like an electric guitar if it's a flamenco. If you made it normal sized and enlarged the shell to encase it the bass would be overpowering and out of balance with the trebles.

We once attached a shell to a classic guitar for a professional player. I thought the result made the guitar much too heavy in the bass but he loved the sound and later bought a cutaway double from us. He still plays the cutaway exclusively. That is the only cutaway double body that I know of and the only one we'll ever build. It was all Brazilian Rosewood inside and out with a cedar top and built in remote electronics so he could play through an amp without being attached. This was pretty advanced technology at that time and frightfully difficult to make.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2012 14:31:04
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
There are two schools of thought on back construction, active and reflective. Smallman uses a solid reflective back to increase projection; John's design differs in that he is increasing projection while maintaining an active back.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2012 17:00:48
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

Another question John, is the internal guitar made smaller or is the shell made slightly larger?


The internal guitar is very shallow. Almost like an electric guitar if it's a flamenco. If you made it normal sized and enlarged the shell to encase it the bass would be overpowering and out of balance with the trebles.

We once attached a shell to a classic guitar for a professional player. I thought the result made the guitar much too heavy in the bass but he loved the sound and later bought a cutaway double from us. He still plays the cutaway exclusively. That is the only cutaway double body that I know of and the only one we'll ever build. It was all Brazilian Rosewood inside and out with a cedar top and built in remote electronics so he could play through an amp without being attached. This was pretty advanced technology at that time and frightfully difficult to make.


THank you for this explaination.
Really intriguing about the cutaway double body.. I've always liked cutaways..
I really like more cutaways to be used in flamencos..
I've seen Jason Mcguire, Suarez (can't remember first name), Jose Luis Monton (one of my FAV players) use cutaways. I mean it's awesome especially with capo use.
I've seen cutaways from a few guys here, Stephen, Ethan and Andy.
How much does an extra cutaway add to the cost of a guitar? And is it MUCH difficult to add a cutaway?

hmmm should I start this on a new thread?

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2012 0:30:43
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to HolyEvil) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

How much does an extra cutaway add to the cost of a guitar? And is it MUCH difficult to add a cutaway?


Cutaways must be built from scratch since the neck has to be designed differently from a standard guitar. They are a little more difficult to build due to the precise fitting required where the cutaway joins the fingerboard and the sharp bending of the cutaway side and bindings. We used to charge extra (about 20 % if I recall) but don't build them anymore.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2012 15:13:14
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Cutaways must be built from scratch since the neck has to be designed differently from a standard guitar. They are a little more difficult to build due to the precise fitting required where the cutaway joins the fingerboard and the sharp bending of the cutaway side and bindings. We used to charge extra (about 20 % if I recall) but don't build them anymore.


thank you for your reply.. I'm definitely getting a cutaway for a 'built for me' guitar, when I have my fingers all sorted and can play better.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2012 1:35:34
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: Double-body guitars? (in reply to TANúñez) 
About all I can add to this is that if John says his double body guitars are more powerful, then they must be extremely powerful. My new blanca from him arrived yesterday, and it is perhaps the most powerful new guitar I have played. I'm more happy with this guitar than any other that I have ever had built for me, and no, I'm not just saying that.

You just can't do any better than this. The setup is out of this world and its apparent that lots of time and care go into these instruments. I have never seen a smoother set of pegs on an instrument, these are just right on. These folks know what they are doing!

Sorry, this is sounding more like a review than a discussion, but I wanted to put it out there...

I hope to someday get a double body.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2012 2:20:37
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