French Polish: 99% isopropyl alcohol versus Denatured Alcohol.

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JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

French Polish: 99% isopropyl alcohol...

Hi guys,

I've been using denatured alcohol til now to practice French Polish on a Paracho guitar I bought as my first guitar. I bought it almost 20 years ago from a guy who had a stand in the "Mercado De Los Dulces" in Morelia; a lot of people from Paracho sell their guitars there, albeit not very good ones but anyways. At least it's all solid wood! It looks like Palo Escrito, and I think a spruce top but I'm not sure.

Anyways, I would really rather not use DA anymore. I'm getting more and more concerned about the poisons they put in there as denaturants. Yes, I know, we live in a polluted world, but still...

I've been using Kleen Strip Green, and it has this stuff in it:

Ethyl alcohol {Ethanol}: 90-100%
Methanol {Methyl alcohol; Carbinol; Wood alcohol}: <10%
Methyl isobutyl ketone {Hexone; Isopropylacetone; MIBK; 4-Methyl-2-pentanone}: <10%
Acetic acid, Ethyl ester {Ethyl acetate}: <5%

Yuck! I did my research, and as far as locally available DA's go, this one is the best of the worst lol. Has the highest ethanol content. There was one called Crown NEXT that was 95% ethanol, 5% isopropyl. That would have been perfect except they don't sell it anymore. I emailed them and was told it no longer met clean air standards; I guess the government thought it wasn't poisonous enough so they banned it lol!

There's always Everclear but I priced it at ~ $45 for a liter, shipped from out of state. The Kleen Strip is $7 for about a liter, locally. I don't know if I can manage that, as I am already counting the pennies for this little project.

Then, I found a place that has 99% isopropyl alcohol, for around 27$ a gallon. Per ounce, that's a little bit more expensive than Kleen Strip, not too bad. Except I have to buy a big ass gallon container just to test it out. From my understanding, it is just a more concentrated rubbing alcohol. Sounds pretty safe to me.

Can anyone vouch for 99% iso for French Polishing? I've read it dries slower than ethanol, but I'm not clear how that affects the polishing, if it dries too slow when padding or if it's a longer wait between sessions?

Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2012 20:48:34

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Get iso at the drugstore in smaller sizes, I'm sure it will be as pure as you can get but I have not tried it yet. Buying alcohol in larger then 1litre sizes isn't a great idea as it absorbs water from the air and doesn't stay fresh.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2012 1:17:05

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Boy I have to harken back to my college chemistry days for this one. Although both liquids you mention are alcohol, Isopropyl is a secondary variety in that the carbon that attaches to the OH molecule (hence the grouping name, alcohol)attaches to two carbon atoms instead of one. Whether this affects french polishing I would not know. Hey experimentation is the foundation of science so try it out on a piece of wood (not the guitar).

There is a product called Spiritus (catchy, eh?) that is 94% pure that can be purchased over the counter and one might be able to get laboratory grade ethanol which is 100%. Not sure on the prices and availability though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2012 9:34:11

jstelzer

Posts: 30
Joined: Dec. 14 2008

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Try calling a large paint supplier that sells to contractors. It's been a year since I purchased alcohol and things may have changed. Sunnyside Corporation used to produce a product called: AllPro Denatured Alcohol 95% Ethanol. California is constantly changing EPA regs, so it may be a local problem.

My limited experience with iso is that it works, but is slower drying and it seems to take forever to dissolve the flakes. Also makes your shop smell like a doctors office.

Jim in La Pine

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2012 17:28:21

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

I use it for french polishing and havent had a problem with it. If it does dry slower I haven't noticed either

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2012 18:40:27

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Thanks guys for the responses. I think I'm going to give it a shot. I searched high and low, and I could not find smaller sizes in pharmacies or paint stores (I'm trying to avoid buying online since shipping is too high). I'll follow up on the leads mentioned though, and if I find anything I'll report back. Thanks again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2012 21:16:52

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

I have had excellent results French polishing using 99% isopropanol. I got tired of feeling sick when using denatured alcohol, which was 50% methanol by weight, even when using a fan to clear the air. I find that the 99% isopropanol is not slower and gives smoother results. Please tell me where you found it so cheap. I paid around $10 per liter on Amazon.com The stuff at the drugstore is 70%--containing too much water.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2012 15:38:35

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Hi Ethan,

I found it at a local Ace Hardware store (Pastime Ace Hardware in El Cerrito, CA). I'm actually going there today for something else (they sell something called Dragon Skin, which is like a Microplane rasp but in sheet form, looks pretty neat). I'll get the label / SKU number for you, maybe you can order it from your local Ace if they don't have it in-store (I know my other local Ace's didn't). I know that Ace has free Ship-To-Store for pick-up. Their website doesn't list alcohols for some reason. I'm thinking maybe you can also call the number on the Ace website and order it for free in-store pick up? In any case, I'll get the product details for you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2012 16:21:11

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Thanks, Juan. I hope it's available in my state (Washington). Grain alcohol is not.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2012 18:54:06

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Alright, so I snapped a quick photo of the label, and here is the info off of it. The brand is Swan. The Manufacturer's Code is S13304V. The Ace Item # is 9066085, and the UPC code is 3 0869_1208_10 2. It's a gallon-size, $25.99. Hope this helps!

I also did a quick Google and found this:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/1575-first-aid/18234.html

That's a real good price, but you gotta buy at least 4 gallons. Depending on how much shipping is, this might be an even better deal in the long run.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2012 3:06:33

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Thank you so much, Juan. This is less than half the cost of the stuff I bought on Amazon, that was sold for nail salons to use for wiping on acrylic nail jobs to make them shine or some such crazy thing. It looks like I am going to be busy making a lot of guitars so I think I can deal with four gallons.

My theory is that isopropanol, which has a higher boiling point than methanol or ethanol, acts as its own retarder, instead of the butanol retarder that is added to Bekhol, and that's why it gives smoother results than "denatured." But like I said I do not find that it dries slowly, I think because it contains so little water. There's just enough time for ridges to flow out.

I hope to see some of your work.

Best wishes.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2012 14:28:21

jstelzer

Posts: 30
Joined: Dec. 14 2008

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Another source

Jim in La Pine

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2012 19:22:59

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

ooooo nice find! That's the size I was looking for, too. I'll check out my local Safeway for this. I hope they have it. Thanks jstelzer !

Ethan: You're welcome! I hope that info helps you out. I'll see about posting a pic of my incredible FP skills one of these days lol! I'm still struggling with the whole bodying process. That so-called "vapor trail" eludes me. No matter what I try I can't get a consistent vapor trail. I'll keep at it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2012 21:39:17

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1676
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

My advice: Don't believe every bit of lore you read about French polishing. Many different techniques work fine. I think the "vapor trail" may actually be an oil trail, so it may depend on how much oil you're using. If you're not seeing it and you are still getting good results, don't worry about it. That is something I never consciously pay attention to and I get good results.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2012 23:14:48

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

Don't be a wuss! Buy the man sized gallon!

hey Juan I just ran out of alcohol, if you have not gotten the wuss bottle yet, I'll buy the gallon and share it with you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2012 2:29:32

JuanDaBomb

Posts: 189
Joined: May 18 2011

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to estebanana)

lol, the wuss bottle. OK, sounds good, thanks! I'll give you a ring tomorrow, to see if you're available for a visit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2012 20:36:18

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

I'll be here....with the big bottle.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2012 21:22:09

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: French Polish: 99% isopropyl alc... (in reply to JuanDaBomb)

The down side to isopropyl is it makes your shop smell like a doctors office. Yuck.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2012 23:35:04