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RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
yes ramzi you're right I've read a lot about sopa and pipa and I watched that video before
check this when you have some time
it seems to be a very serious topic that would ruin the web, but on the other hand many people are taking a symbolic stand against SOPA and PIPA ... calling them as two awful laws ... so am not sure how effective those laws will be
although those laws seems to be so powerful but personally I don't think they will be able to control piracy completly ... man hackers are all over the web ... p2p apps such as LimeWire are spread like crazy ... torrents and emule project etc ..... I really doubt they will be able to control all that
anyway I suggest that you go and start downloading everything on the web enjoy it as it lasts
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
Yeah its ridiculous how some people in the gov do dumb things without listening to people who actually know something... Its like here in the foro...some people just don´t listen to my profound advice...they just do and do the wrong thing... lol! xD
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
Sorry but the internet is actually a mess of wasted binary code storage space in most cases. SOME of it is actually good and useful.....but the arrogance of most people who can make "their own website" or type and upload anything they can get their greasy hands on, is out of control as I see it.
I think everyone of age should be required to pass some random intellectual quiz before accessing most portions of the internet. What freedom has allowed is people who think their opinions on ALL issues give a gold pass to speak or act as they please...much different to real face to face life. Freedom is abused far more then it is appreciated truly for what it is. Some dorks think blacking out their precious websites makes them feel like powerful gods to be reckoned with ....THEY AREN"T! They are just computer nerds. IMO
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
hahah.. yeah..but to be honest..this bill is actually really a very very bad stupid thing. It must be avoided for any cost. Its pure dumbness at its best.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA? I would appreciate reading responses from those who think these bills place the internet in danger. Specifically, I have two questions:
A. Do those who are opposed to the bills think that online piracy and theft of intellectual property should be a right of anyone who can download music, literature, art, or any other type of copyrighted material or intellectual property? Do they think that musicians, authors, and artists do not have a right to collect the royalties they otherwise would have collected had their work not been pirated or downloaded without payment?
B. If those opposed to SOPA and PIPA agree that copyrighted material and intellectual property should be protected, and that piracy should be discouraged and even punished, what is it about these two bills that is so objectionable?
I am not trying to start an argument, but I would be interested in the responses from those opposed to the bills.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH)
B doesnt exist without A, so i will just concentrate on A:
the Internet is both. It contains legal and illegal stuff. So far some of the companies complain about loosing money. But its not like they dont sell anything anymore. Its just less then what they were used to be. Maybe they should just get used to the fact that music can be shared 24h/day all around the world. On the other hand the Internet has helped many unknown artists to get publicity they would never had gotten without it (Ricardo, you are one of them ). And this was all without these bills. Thus my conclusion is that the Internet rocks and these bills s*ck. For some reason my spelling checker wants to write Internet in capital letters, dont know if thats correct.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
# I remember intensive discussions in the audio recording community about copyright infringement with illegal downloads, years ago. The supporters of a free internet delivered much more of hard facts than the hysterical fraction of defenders of intellectual property. It was almost as unbalanced like creationists discussing palaeontologists.
The free exchange of music files after all also functions as a marketing tool that results in legal obtain of albums, which again reduces the actual loss in turn-over to much less than the the industry pretends. Which is also why a number of artists choses to offer music for free.
The ones who are actually negatively affected with a mere 20% less return are major labels, who yearn for their spoiled times of cockaigne which yet wouldn´t keep them from squeezeing out their gagged artists. Which again is why a not too small number of artists decided to leave and promote their stuff independently over the internet.
The major labels still are doing very well, only a bit less affluent than before the internet. And it must be considered that not all of the 1/5 of profit decline are being caused by illegal downloads. In former times the market share was concentrated on a much smaller number of internationally promoted artists than today. With the options of the internet consumers purchasing power is being spread among a much greater number of interprets, of which more and more are being endorsed under indie labels or through own domains.
So, all in all true losses on margin are far below of what conservative hooter likes to pretend, and not even worth mentioning before the general advantage of a free internet.
Another point worth considering is that a substantial share of illegal downloads is being determined by the habit of exessive profiteering. Many of the consumers of software for instance would certainly prefer to buy a legal copy instead of downloading cracks. Much for reason of legitimacy; partially because of the malware. But the capitalist premisse of squeeze-all-that´s-possible leads to pricings that end up way beyound of what could be appearing remotely adequate. The more specialized the software and the less competing products there are, the more through the roof it gets.
From there I recall my message to a sales director of an audio effects maker, who at that time used to be the most famous and most overpriced brand. I suggested to him to settle on somewhat reasonable pricing and earn just as much, if not more through a growing customer base, whilst the interest on cracking should diminish. His answer was furious.
So, I started publicly illuminating the growing strengths of competitors´effects and pointing out the hazzles and shortcomings of the aforementioned brand, soon and increasingly confirmed by the user community. Not too long afterwards, with the steadily acknowledged and improving products of competition, the fancy brand´s market position changed dramatically. And they couldn´t regain despite the encrease of price drops and concessions made. And yet, though much more humbly now, they are certainly still doing well.
Cracks would hardly exist, and lesser even be used, if demanded originals were being offered at a fair deal. Same counts for albums which for no reason are often offered for double of what even venyls once used to cost. - With yet, the artists ( and increasingly recording studios too) receiving only crumbs.
# Objectable about SOPA and PIPA is not only the distortion and hypocricy behind it, but the fact that such laws once introduced will be used to restrict the internet in other regards than just copyright protection. SOPA and PIPA are Troyan Horses of regime.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA? I would appreciate reading responses from those who think these bills place the internet in danger. Specifically, I have two questions:
I have no time to read the questions but the anwer is: The idea for the bills is a good thing, but they are much to general so that they affect a wide range of things which arent necessary. And thata the problem. Because what it affects beside of its purpose aren´t minor things. This is severe. Anybody who dont see that is ... Thats Fact.
On the other hand the Internet has helped many unknown artists to get publicity they would never had gotten without it (Ricardo, you are one of them ).
Excuse me sir, but I was playing out years before I even got on line to check email.
I have gotten some gigs and work etc via internet...but it pales in comparison to LIVING HUMAN NETWORKING. In fact, I would say that I have advertised just as much or more, FOR stuff online when people ask me AT GIGS what's going on or where they can find info etc...compared to advertising I have received thanks to internet. Main thing is youtube. quick easy way to show somebody something...but it is not be all end all of life. Keeping contacts with friends and such is made easier quick and cheap, but in the old days we had A TELEPHONE! and we could write a letter or send a photo. It's just easier now that's all.
People act like the world ends if the power goes out and can't check email. Personalities are growing behind keyboards but they are not "real" and should not be affect by something silly like taking down a web site or disabled email or "sharing" site.
And about sharing and copyright.....has been discussed endlessly on the foro in the past. If internet goes totally off line...I still have my friends and guitar and gigs etc. Only problem is RECORD STORES ARE GONE. Why? cuz of this sharing **** and add to cart on line buying ****. I can't buy an album to check out for a few weeks anymore....I can download an entire discography in seconds and listen to some of it IF I have the time. People don't value time any more or music or anything because it is all there at a touch of a button.
Ok, true it was easier to make a CD and sell myself....but honestly, I make the money from the CD playing out at gigs. Online, some people can download my new cd cheap as **** cuz of a stupid box I forgot to not check. It is ridiculous. Great that folks think cuz everything is so cheap quick and easy that it "promotes" us and "exposes us" as artists.....well ever heard "you can die from exposure"? I reserve the right to actually NOT sell my CD to people who I think don't appreciate certain aspects. At a gig someone once said "$20 bucks? Thats crazy, I will just download it...." another person "$20 bucks? That is crazy....I will give you 15...what do you say?" I say "sorry, I am sold out"....
Anyway, I have made a point to actually meet in person a lot of the internet personalities I have encountered, for the reasons I describe above. I think its really important. Sure, there is a chance I might have never met some great people in my life thanks to the internet shrinking the world....but in the end the flamenco world has always been pretty small anyway.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to rombsix)
Bill - The problem with SOPA and PIPA is that they give the copyright industry control over what's allowed on the internet. A whole site can be shut down just because of a complaint from ASCAP. This website will surely be one that is deemed pirate because of the youtube links to copyrighted material. Does that seem like a fair, or even well-thought-out model?
The copyright industry doesn't care about creativity, nor does it actually care about maintaining the artist's intellectual property rights. They only care about their money and how much more they can be making if everyone was forced to buy their products.
There are plenty of good alternatives to piracy nowadays. iTunes store, Spotify, Amazon, etc, are all either selling or letting the user stream music for a minimal fee. The same can be said for TV shows and movies. It's easier to pay $10/month to netflix and be able to stream a whole lot of content than it is to go out looking for torrents. That's the solution to piracy, give the customer what they want rather than make them jump through hoops.
Ricardo - Wake up! The world is not only flamenco. In fact, flamenco (and music in general) are such a small part of (most people's) life that it can be considered insignificant. The internet is not only a place for people to sell their CDs or write their silly thoughts. There's actual information that's being shared on the web. Things that you would never probably never hear about otherwise. New scientific innovations, political uprisings, natural disasters, etc. The internet is a means of communication and if governments starts censoring it (actually they already do, but the US is still 'free') it's a slippery slope to Orwell's 1984.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Ricardo)
You have to take into account not just direct money from selling CDs via Online shop. The Internet helps promoting. How much is the percentage of the "customers" that booked you ONLY because they found you on the internet? Or because someone showed them one of your performances on the net? Part of the reason why unknown people can get quite famous is because of this viral quality of the internet. Remember the quote that everybody will be famous for 15 minutes! The Internet is not there to feed you with money until the end. It is up to you (not you personal) to use it to establish networking. Well im no pro, its just my thoughts how i would do it if i was gigging.
Regardless i know that many artists do the same gigs every year, for 20 years, and they have the connections already. Ok, good. Such people do not need the internet. But that is no reason to say its not useful, and not extremely extremely important for other artists.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Why this rush to claim the internet is in danger because of SOPA and PIPA?
Bill, Chester, rumbaking and Ruphus have raised the main points.
A writer in Forbes (yes) says succinctly that SOPA is "an odious piece of legislation that would allow domain names to be erased from the web without due process of law".
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester)
quote:
This website will surely be one that is deemed pirate because of the youtube links to copyrighted material.
wow that's seems just ridiculous.
So the bill expects to shut down all the forum or blogs that refers to copyrighted materials (as links providers)?
But why these bills do not forced Youtube to RESPECT the copyright instead? Oh wait maybe coz the owner is Google. He's toooo big and the looby might be very powerfull. Megaupload or rapidshare might be thin in comparison.
Instead the little blogger or forumite website with no real power to defend themself by the loobying act gonna be shoot off.
If that's the case then these are suking laws.
quote:
The Internet helps promoting. How much is the percentage of the "customers" that booked you ONLY because they found you on the internet?
I'd ask this same question to the luthiers involved in this foro too
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to Estevan)
Thanks to all of you for your responses to my initial query. All posts have been interesting and thoughtful. In any case, as of today, several U.S. Congressmen have withdrawn support for the bills.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to mezzo)
quote:
But why these bills do not forced Youtube to RESPECT the copyright instead? Oh wait maybe coz the owner is Google. He's toooo big and the looby might be very powerfull. Megaupload or rapidshare might be thin in comparison.
Actually these bills would make Google accountable for the content on Youtube.
It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester)
quote:
It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.
ahaha!! I can imagine an exfiltration operation by the new special agency these bills could create to enforce the law all over the world. You americans are too much
But if Google become accountable then this should solve the issues no? Coz all the material available on YT since then should be "legalize".
_____________________________
"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
RE: The internet is in danger! (in reply to chester)
quote:
It's not only about shutting down - Simon (the owner of this forum) could go to jail just for having links (not even hosting) to copyrighted material on this site.
China is the land of hackers and I think if US pushed those bills any further ... they will face real problems with hackers all over the world ... and not sure if they can track hackers in china (as an example)
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