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flamenco pedagogy
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: flamenco pedagogy (in reply to michael k)
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quote:
I am a flamenco guitar performance major at the university of wisconsin-milwaukee.
Wow, I did not know there was such a thing, that is cool. Who is the professor and how many students in the same program?
As far as flamenco "pedagogy", well the real stuff from Spain is handed down in the good ol, oral tradition manner. That is the way flamenco is learned in Spain, so these methods are not the same thing that they are to the classical guitar world, and more for the foreign market. You could pick up a good classical guitar method and go through just from the paper, but flamenco guitar doesn't work the same. I don't think transcription books are the same thing as a "pedagogy".
To some else who mentioned Edward Freeman...I know personally one of his top students who was given the giant "flamenco method" he developed, all hand written exercises, graduating pieces and master level transcriptions of young PdL and Sabicas. Freeman actually obtained legal copywrites for his transcriptions back in the early 60's, but my friend did not renew them. The entire book is really thick, like a Webster dictionary. He claims it really works as a "method", at least for him it did. But my friend also went to Spain and made his own transcriptions.
Anyway, good luck w/ your classes Michael K. I highly recommend you get the Rito y Geografia del Toque video series, so you can SEE the various technique schools and styles up close and in your face. A picture speaks a thousand words, but a video can speak millions.
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 17 2005 17:35:48
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: flamenco pedagogy (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Michael:
http://www.flamenco-world.com/magazine/about/rafaelmarin/marin.htm
Did you guys check out the excerpt from his method book? A lot of times, the tab did not agree w/ the standard notation. Back then, who would have been the editor?
I understand why this guy Marin wanted to understand how to translate the beauty and power of flamenco, to a more intellectual audience or student base. Nowadays we have M. Sanlucar and his orchestrated "flamenco" works, and the things he discusses about music theory in interviews. I too come from a "studied music" background, but when it comes to learning flamenco, (especially in Spain), I prefer to forget about that stuff, the music training, and learn the "spanish way". It works better believe it or not. That is why there are so many in Spain, and they are so good...
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 17 2005 17:59:54
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: flamenco pedagogy (in reply to michael k)
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quote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that most great Flamenco players just hear in their head what's good.
Of course, this is the essential thing! You have to hear it in your head--getting it out on the guitar is the easy part. In fact, I think this applies to playing guitar, singing, drawing, handwriting, dog training, networking, cooking...
1. Hear it in your head.
2. Then play it.
Another View
On the other hand, recently I have been studying a lot of classical theory, from a thick book written in the forties. I have gone through dozens of pages of blank sheet music, pencil, and use a keyboard, not a guitar, to play the exercises. I am also learning how to sight sing, which is to be able to sing music from sheet music, without having to hear the melody. What does this have to do with flamenco? Both nothing and everything.
I have found that, after a few months fo this training, I can hear, learn, and retain music much better. In fact, my friend Monty exclaimed: "You have a GREAT memory!" After I learned one of his falsetas in two tries. I learned a couple songs last week, and it happened very quickly, and I alreayd performed them in a gig the same week. I hear intervals out of the blue, "oh, that's a fourth, followed by a minor third", which automatically enables me to play them on the guitar or the keyboard. I hear chord progressions, "I to V", or "Andalusian Cadence", etc.
Now, this may or may not seem a big deal, but it does represent large increases in my musicianship, which has a direct result on my guitar playing, stemming from training completely apart from the guitar. I believe that, althoug hflamenco has many aspects that are different from western music, it is still primarily based on it, and this kind of foundational training thus influences it. How do you memorize thousands of notes if you do not have a framework in which to place them? A lot of Bach changes chords every note. But you don't memorize every note--you learn chords, then you learn chord progressions, then you learn sequences of chord progressions. You learn and become familiar with the mechanics and logic of music. My friend Alan, a violinist, can hear any melody and play it instantly. I believe this sort of ability stems from the development of his ear, which this sort of training does quite well. And this is helpfulf or any western music, including flamenco.
So it has been very helpful for me, this "book learning".
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Date Jun. 18 2005 14:59:17
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I think that was published in the early '70's. 
