Saddle Material

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Saddle Material

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VietFlamenco

Posts: 140
Joined: Aug. 1 2010

Saddle Material

I'm planning to order some saddle blanks to try my hands at making my own saddles. Ran across a wide range of materials and frankly it's a bit overwhelming. I know the most popular choice is bleached cow bones, so here are my questions to the resident luthiers:

1) Does it matter what type of bones I use? Cow, camel, human?

and

2) Has anyone tried ivory or buffalo horn?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 21:36:11

MarTay6

Posts: 69
Joined: Jul. 10 2011

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Ivory used to be a preferred material for nuts and saddles before the use of ivory became of concern. Fossilized ivory is still a very good material.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 22:05:19

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Sadly my family believes in cremation so I couldn't tell you if grandma would have helped any in the making of one of my guitars. I would probably just go with cow bone properly degreased if I were you, unbleached if you like the vintage look.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 22:54:53

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Be careful with stuff like ivory (maybe buffalo horn too). As a result of the Lacey act people have been slapped with hefty fines for transacting in stuff like tortoiseshell, ivory, etc. even if it was originally produced a long time ago.
I'd say go with the cow bone

_____________________________

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 23:14:15

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

It's legal from these guys as long as it's shipped in the US only:

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/products.asp

http://www.ivoryseller.com/?nav=products&cat=1&sub=8

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 23:37:03

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to VietFlamenco)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 0:53:27

malakka

Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 14 2009

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Thank you, Nealf!

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/08/elephants-201108

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 0:56:12

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

quote:

Please DO NOT encourage people to use Elephant Ivory!
Regular bone is plenty fine and what is used by ALL the flamenco maestros in Spain.

Not encouraging anyone. Oh and yes, there is a lot of pre ban in the U.S. Just take the time to do your research. I have no intention of getting into a discussion about the ethics of using ivory. And oh by the way, “you” owned a guitar that had an ivory saddle. I know that for a fact.

Have a nice day.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 1:07:07

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to VietFlamenco)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 2:53:53

VietFlamenco

Posts: 140
Joined: Aug. 1 2010

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to Guest)

Point taken, no elephant ivory for me. While we're on this subject, how about dem Brazilian Rosewood??

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 3:01:29

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Neal,

So you of course had Lester also remove the Brazilian rosewood back, sides, headstock face plate and bridge?

I'm not against you man, I just hope you see the futility of this type of argument (discussion).

Now give me a big hug!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 3:14:28

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Seems fitting given the subject matter

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 3:57:31

medialuna

Posts: 10
Joined: Oct. 10 2007

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

I take legal mammoth tooth

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 13:00:24

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

quote:

Does it matter what type of bones I use? Cow, camel, human?

and

2) Has anyone tried ivory or buffalo horn?

Go to the pet store and buy a big hunk of cow bone, the kind people buy for the dog to chew on. Take it home and boil it for 3 or 4 hours. Set it out in the sun for a week or three to dry and bleach out. Cut into into slices with a band saw.

Or call Stew Mac and order some saddles already made. Much easier.

Option #2- well .......ahh you see what happens? These guys are ranting me than me.

Truth is guitars are small potatoes when it comes to using rare products. More wood gets mowed down in Brazil to be made into decks and deck chairs for Yuppies than ever goes into guitars. Arguing about rare wood in guitars is silly when you think about the rape of the forest for wood to line the beds of commercial trucks and to make make architectural facades.

Ivory....fossil Ivory is fine ethically. Modern ivory, don't even think about it. Most Ivory goes to Asian black markets to unethical dealers and is used to make some mythical kind of viagra for old superstitious duffers. Guitars don't need it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 13:37:17

ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

I prefer horn of unicorn - makes the trebles sound mythical

On a serious note, that picture nealf posted is truly horrible - I don't see the need to use ivory of any kind when cow bone works just fine. I have ordered from Bob Colosi many times and have always chosen standard bone for my saddles and nuts.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 13:57:18

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

you could use tusq, wich is a man-made substitute for ivory.. it is slightly brighter than regular bone, and its self lubricating so strings slip nice throught the slots, this wont realy be an issue on a flamenco guitar obviously, but it can be on electrics.

the man who tought me to build guitars used a solid mother of pearl nut on his first classical to bring out some more harmonic overtones and brightness, and it also looks cool.

I'd prefer to see a person make good use of the materials and rare woods rather than letting them go to waste. still doesnt make it right though.

_____________________________

www.yestragitaarbouw.nl

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 15:44:41

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

I have to admit I have tried ivory. Several years ago a friend gave me some very old broken ivory chop sticks. The stuff was so old and hard, it was like working with iron. I think I made two saddles with it. To be perfectly honest, I couldn’t tell any difference at all versus bone.

And yes Neal I do have morals. As Florian once said, “If you don’t like them, I have others”.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 16:10:47

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

In the end ivory is not the best nut material anyway it's too soft and it makes your guitar sound like a piano.

Da da dun, rimshot....I'll be here all week, two shows on Sunday.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 18:51:07

VietFlamenco

Posts: 140
Joined: Aug. 1 2010

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to estebanana)

Well yesterday I ended up going to a local music store and picked up some bones. Filed and sanded the saddle to perfection. Problem is, after sanding the bone, I didn't bother buffing the saddle. Is this even necessary? If so, i don't have a buffer, want can I use to buff on a small project like this?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 21:46:29

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

quote:

want can I use to buff on a small project like this?

The back of a sheet of sand paper. Wet or dry paper works best.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 22:23:34

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

In the end ivory is not the best nut material anyway it's too soft and it makes your guitar sound like a piano.

Personally I rather like using ivory for saddles. I think it looks cool when it yellows with age. Of course all my ivory is from Walrus tusks. The eskimos kill them for food and sell the tusks on the black market. I once tried to get some Killer Whale teeth from a dead one that washed up on the Oregon coast. Of course the local revenuer slime bags wouldn't let anyone harvest the teeth. Better to bury the poor creature in the sand than to allow profiteers like me to have access. I really don't like interfering government swine. I wish I'd been there first with my sledge hammer.

_____________________________

John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2011 23:02:32

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

yeah but it is against Federal law to remove any parts of a wild animal like a killer whale unless you're a native American. It's set up that way to devalue poaching rare species.

besides it was a joke........ Ivory piano keys.......... ebony fingerboard.....guitar sounds like a piano.

oh never mind......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2011 0:19:00

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Saddle Material (in reply to VietFlamenco)

VietFlamenco--micromesh works well to buff just about anything--start with 1500 then use 4000. if you do not have micromesh then 0000 steel wool should do the trick (also works well in cleaning gunk off of fret boards and polishing the frets).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 14 2011 1:54:48