Flamenco is dangerous!!

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Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

Flamenco is dangerous!!

Louis_B has been invited to play at a local old peoples charity day – obviously for free.
He’d tentatively agreed.

Now the organisers have asked for:

1. A detailed written risk assessment
2. Public liability insurance
3. Electrical test certificate if he wants to use his amp

I thought it was some sort of misunderstanding, and asked for clarification, but no.

Has the world gone mad or is a 14 year old flamenco guitar player a danger to life & limb?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 6:21:19

Pawo

Posts: 104
Joined: Mar. 15 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

Has the world gone mad

Yes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 7:21:05

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

I just received a 7 page binding document that i need to to sign for a sunday afternoon gig.

These things irritate me a lot.

When i renewed my public liability insurance recently i noticed a category for public speaker, Lol

What really irritates me is the double dipping. I mean, The venue already pays for public liability and then i have to pay again.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 10:09:30

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

Now the organisers have asked for:

1. A detailed written risk assessment
2. Public liability insurance
3. Electrical test certificate if he wants to use his amp

I thought it was some sort of misunderstanding, and asked for clarification, but no.

Maybe there are some aspects of Lancashire I don't quite understand (and I say that as someone who "lived" in England for four months, or so, as an exchange student). But, Jesus Christ, what a pain in the ass. And they won't even bother to clarify? I'd cancel. The time spent writing up a "risk assessment" (not to mention figuring out how to write one, in the first place) and providing "public liability insurance" (who has that?!) is time better spent practicing and enjoying the art of flamenco guitar.

I'm all for "bringing flamenco to the masses", but that just sounds ridiculous.

Choose wisely!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 10:18:46

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

It's like anything else in the UK. You want to fart, you'll have to have a Risk Assessment, Indemnity Insurance, Method Statement, Local Authority and English Heritage Consents, and the list goes forever. I work in the Rail industry; imagine the amount of bureaucracy we have to go through to put a nail on a wall; mind blowing!

Yes, I wouldn't bother in the first place.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 10:46:33

MarTay6

Posts: 69
Joined: Jul. 10 2011

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

We as a species have truly lost it...
..and if you'd ask me to clarify, I'll simply say- we have become NUTS!
Wes

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 11:30:45

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

Has the world gone mad or is a 14 year old flamenco guitar player a danger to life & limb?

Its Louis you need to worry about!
Once the old folks get exited it can get pretty wild....make sure you accompany him and keep an eye on the women.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 12:36:48

jaggedsphere

Posts: 146
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
From: Ottawa/Toronto

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Pawo)

quote:

quote:

Has the world gone mad

Yes

That's basing it off the assumption that at SOME point we were sane...Perhaps during the cambrian age...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 13:53:11

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Certain branches must be put under societal supervision.

The irony is that out of all branches that should be conducted by superordinate aims instead have become leading in out-of-hand margins / radical profiteering.
Those being medical supply and care, educational institutions and their fees and late policies, banking, real estate brokering / speculation and insurances.

Someone here remember the times when insurance fees used to be not too far from reasonable still, and when their lobbying hadn´t yet forced through insurance obligations to yet the last niche?

First they raised their fees to far above financial necessity of covering / reasonable budgeting and bureaucratic maintenance; but the affluence must have not been enough yet.
Next, in the prinicpal way like of national manufacturers who went and engaged officials to introduce and raise import duties against competition, the insurance cartells instigated obligatory insuring in about any kind of professional conductment.

And with that hit two flies with one strike: For one the enforcement of overcharging insuring dues all over the place, and the escape of warranty in the same time.

So what things ended up with are totally overpriced fees and manifold ways for insurances to not pay, the minute the insurance taker has not fulfilled any of the countless preconditions of slick contracting.

Just as Hippocrates oath is dead long since, remaining ethical standards in concern of education and warranting have become exotic artifacts too.
The insurcance branch, the pharmaceutical / medical supply branches and banking before all others are squeezing the living crap out of the people unchecked.

Their profits must be supervised and limited by law to have them go off people´s neck.
Needless to say that above named branches together with the food branch are pragmatically due to official control and tame by the nature of their initial task.
The latter in fact being the only one under official supervision, and even that being a farce as we know too well.

Anyway, to hell with insurance cartells pestilence.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2011 16:18:31

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

Its Louis you need to worry about!

I just thought I'd share part of the response when I asked for clarification

"For your own Risk Assessment you will just need to think about any potential hazard to other people due to the guitar case or guitar itself"

With a bit of imagination the list of potential risks is enormous

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 8:39:20

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

"For your own Risk Assessment you will just need to think about any potential hazard to other people due to the guitar case or guitar itself"

It's that phrase 'any potential' --as opposed to 'likely', 'probable', 'realistic', etc.-- that generates all of the extra work. And then, just to add insult to injury, they throw 'just' into the mix. ****ers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 9:56:08

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to machopicasso)

quote:

****ers.

Hey, why was my use of the perfectly good word '****ers' censored!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 9:57:33

Martin

Posts: 150
Joined: Nov. 21 2004

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

If anyone on here mentions breaking a nail again, they will make us wear Kevlar gloves and goggles

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 13:07:06

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

"For your own Risk Assessment you will just need to think about any potential hazard to other people due to the guitar case or guitar itself"

I would be inclined to send the following reply

1. The guitar is made of wood - potentially flammable
2. The guitar produces sound at various frequency and volume - public may require ear protection.
3. Guitar case is rigid and trauma proof - Public should not attempt to punch it, break into it with their bare hands or use it as a life preserver.
4. Guitarist will be sitting on a chair that may not have been inspected by health and safety inspector
5. Guitarist may recieve unfavorable audience reaction that threatens personal safety.
6. Music may cause emotional reponses in the public such as enjoyment, elevated or lowered blood pressure, relaxation or weeping - advise public with any kind of medical history at all not to listen.
7. Guitarist may get clasp of his watch strap tangled in the strings (that has happened

)
8. Guitarist may well use polish on his shoes that increases the risk of slipping over on stage.
9. Amplifier may well have a live electric current flowing through its circuitry if switched on.
10 Guitar case could potentially trap fingers of an elderly person inside, and potentially cause lower back or pelvic injury if it was mistaken as a potty.

11. Insurance assesor may well recieve a guitar related injury requiring services of a proctologist

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 30 2011 18:26:31

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Many thanks Pimientito for your input.

I managed to compile a 3 page risk assessment without being too "imaginative"

I've been invited to a risk assessment meeting this evening.
I wouldn't miss it for the World

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2011 17:56:48

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Well sanity has prevailed - I think

A triplicate copy of my 3 page risk assessment was gratefully accepted and will be used for an equally "dangerous" classical guitarist - I kid you not

Public liability insurance now to be covered by the organisers

Louis_B is now safe to play

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2011 20:12:13

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

an equally "dangerous" classical guitarist

You cant trust those classical musicians. The news is full of carnage and meyhem that they leave in their wake.

On a serious note ( and bearing in mind I havnt been to the UK for a while now), are you saying that to do a gig somewhere you have to present a certificate of liability these days or is this just because its an elderly persons home?

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"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 10:31:28

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

quote:

are you saying that to do a gig somewhere you have to present a certificate of liability these days or is this just because its an elderly persons home?

The requirement for public liability insurance, risk assessments and electrical testing was imposed on the organisers by Wigan council who own the civic hall venue.

Having spoken to a couple of part-time performers I know, these requirements are often asked for by venues

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2011 17:48:39

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Well Louis played on Sunday at this event.

4 performers were due to play for 90 minutes each during the day.
The location was a canteen area distributing free cakes & drinks.

Only Louis and the classical guitarist turned up...
The classical guitarist played once for 15 minutes...

Not the most appreciative audience but excellent experience- it doesn't get much tougher to concentrate methinks

A short exerpt to give you a feel of the joy of performing:

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 23 2011 20:33:45

richardf

Posts: 28
Joined: Jun. 29 2011

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Looks interesting Graham, but why is everyone leaving?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 10:02:12

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

nice playing by Louis ole
you know I hate to play in places like this such as restaurants
because people dont pay attention and as they stop paying attention I usually start not caring of what i play

whether I play paco or the easiest things on guitar , it will be the same for audience ... it totally sux

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 10:12:52

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Elie)

In places like restaurants, you have to play for yourself—there’s no other way. Treat it as practice for playing somewhere that people listen.

Basically, you’re hired not as music but as atmosphere.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 16:42:15

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

yes you're right but the noise around you might drive you crazy .. at least that what happens to me lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 16:45:15

Northern Rock

Posts: 87
Joined: Oct. 12 2008
From: London UK

RE: Flamenco is dangerous!! (in reply to Graham_B)

Ole Louis

Graham I,m sure your very proud of him for keeping going with such a hard crowd .

Great playing for such a young lad . KEEP GOING LOUIS !!!!!!!

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"Now Im retired I,ve got my practise time down to 4 hours aday".................Julian Bream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 19:15:20