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Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
Navarro or Tomatito ????
Hi ! I want to buy a flamenco guitar under 1000$ ! I am interested in Francisco Navarro Student 1 and Tomatito Alcazaba Blanca ! I would like to know opinions about these guitars and if you have other offers please give me to know
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
I believe if this possible, you should try both guitars. Factory Guitars can surprise you. I would suggest you a Valerian Bernal for example only cuz it is really comfortable between my hands to play or A Hnos Sanchis too. Both the Navarro and the Tomatito are good. Depends on your connection and feeling towards it. Good luck with your purchase
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Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
Now I have two guitars Esteve 3ECE classical and Yamaha CG171SF flamenco and these guitars have defects ! That's why I don't trust factorial guitars any more ! Is bernal also factorial??
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
quote:
Is bernal also factorial??
But not at all like Yamaha.
The luthier Valeriano Bernal set up a large workshop where about 15 guitars can be made at once. Bernal has since retired, now his son builds with the help of family members. Guitars are built in the traditional way but it's not just one lone man building one guitar. I've been there, to call it a factory is not really representative. But whatever it's called they make guitars I really like, easy to play, responsive and good flamenco sound.
Bernal factory
Yamaha factory
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Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
Hnos Sanchis Lopez is too expensive I want to buy something under 1000 or 1200$ ! my friend had bought a sanchis lopez and I have examined it attentively I think it has a low bridge and excellent sound but it hasn't a good flamenco neck its not enough flat
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
I used to own a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 1F... I have only great things to say about it! It sounded amazing, muy flamenco and very much in the 'Conde' type of sound. I did however buy it when they were still affordable... seems that the Sanchis brothers have gathered so much hype in the past years that their guitars have become really expensive. I am currently in Sevilla, and I have tried quite a few of them here... good guitars, as usual, but way overpriced I think!
Why don't you try to check some luthier made guitars... the reputation is that they are expensive. But you can find a really good instrument that was made by one person with really good materials for not that much.
Juan Lopez Aguilarte makes some amazing sounding guitars... you cn find them for around EUR 1,500, which I think is a bargain for an instrument of this quality.
Anders makes his 2A model which is also very affordable.
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
quote:
I have examined it attentively I think it has a low bridge and excellent sound but it hasn't a good flamenco neck its not enough flat
Just a question - what makes you think that flamenco guitars should have flat back of the neck? I always thought that the contour of the neck is a matter of preference - there are flamenco guitars with flat and with round shape and there are classical guitars with flat and with round shape. I even played electric guitars with both flat and round contour... Some players prefer flat, some prefer round, on my strat I like "V" shaped neck a lot...
Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
It's widely known that flamenco guitar must have flat back of the neck because if it is round and especially if you are playing hard compozitions your left hand will quicklu get tired
Posts: 598
Joined: Feb. 9 2007
From: Paris, France
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
quote:
It's widely known that flamenco guitar must have flat back of the neck because if it is round and especially if you are playing hard compozitions your left hand will quicklu get tired
Not true at all actually... many builders build with pretty chunky necks, which can be round (Reyes for example) or flat (Conde for example).
Actually Reyes' necks are really chunky, but also really comfortable. Barba probably builds the thinnest/flattest necks I've played, and they are not even that thin/flat.
I don't think that there's a rule when it comes to necks... it's a question of taste and getting used to it... as for your left hand getting tired when playing hard compositions on a round neck... I don't think that the neck has anything to do with it, it's all down to practice and hard work... ask Vicente Amigo, Tomatito and Antonio Rey!
Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to avimuno)
I didnt know that flamenco guitars must have flat necks from anywhere either, i like all kinds of necks, its not the size that matters right?
I also think it is all about preference, on my classical guitars, wich are really really chunky and have high action the left hand still does not get any more tired actually.
Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
If you play on a flamenco guitar a hard flamenco composition with hard barres and then play the same on classical guitar if you are a flamenco guitarist you will fill the difference
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
I took my guitar to a luthier to THICKEN the neck. He did it so well that you cant see any difference between the old and new wood and actually his finish looks nicer than the one before.
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
One man building one guitar at a time is basically a factory ... what really matters - is the end result a quality product or not? The ONLY way to determine that is to play the guitar and decide. One man can build a pile of junk, a factory full of workers can create fine guitars ... Also the opposite can happen.
I would prefer to buy a guitar from one man, who built it for me. But reality is they cost a LOT more than guitars that come from "factories", and I have several factory guitars that I am very happy with.
The blue shirted MBA manager in the Yamaha video can barely understand what parts a guitar is made of. ( sorry to squish the low hanging fruit. )
Re: Thicker necks. It's a fallacy to think thinner necks are better. Two things come up, one is the distance the opposable thumb and forefinger have to close in on the neck. There is a point at which the hand is weaker or structurally compromised if the distance between thumb and forefinger is too close. Thicker necks can be easier to grip and play because the thumb is not hyper extended in the action of closing the gap between thumb and fingers. Hyper extending the thumb can cause stress on the thumb because it has o over reach to exert enough force to depress the string.
On many older Spanish guitars the necks are thicker than many necks today. It is interesting in to note that people who lived in Spain 50, 60, 70 years ago were probably smaller than we are today. And their hands also smaller in relation to stature. Yet you see many thick necks on older instruments which have been unaltered.
The other thing is that necks that have a bit more mass can't be all that bad, once the mass starts vibrating, it takes longer to make it stop.
Flat necks have a problem too, often the bottom "corner" of the neck can be an impediment to the thumb moving over the neck laterally. In other words from bass to treble side and back. Some flat necks can feel good a work fine, but the 'D' shape is usually better. ( but not always depending on the player) Just an observation. Personally I like a neck with a bit of meat in it so my hand so not get cramped up, but there are builders who take the beefy neck too far.
I like the Goldilocks neck, not too fat or too thin, it's just right.
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
Hi, you should speak with Ron hudson, who is one of the importer/dealers of Navarro guitars, or tom Nunez. I have owned 2 Navarros, both student models, one was a spruce top, one was cedar top. Francisco Navarro has apprentices that build his student model flamenco guitars. I think Francisco is the main luthier for the higher end "concert level" guitars he sells. Overall, I think the Navarros, even the student models, are far better made and more-for-the-money than factory guitars in that price range ($800/$900). You really do get a very good guitar for the money. And with the few people I know who sell Navarros in the US, there is an approval period---you can return the guitar if you don' t like it for whatever reason.
You should consider shopping around, though, posisbly for a used flamenco if you're thinking of spending $1000. You can find some decent second-hand hand-made flamenco guitars, from Spain or here in the USA, in that price range. Good luck.
Posts: 35
Joined: May 29 2011
From: Armenia , Yerevan
RE: Navarro or Tomatito ???? (in reply to Guitarproject)
My friend has recently bought an Antonio aparicio AA90F Blanca It's a good guitar and very easy played ! It costs 1400$ in Russia ! Now I dont know which guitar is better to buy Navarro Student 1 or Antonio aparicio AA90F
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