Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
Amplification, yet again.
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
James Ashley Mayer
Posts: 115
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon
|
 Amplification, yet again.
|
|
|
I've searched the archive and read plenty on what's out there, but I feel like there is so much more on the market now than there was even a couple of years ago.
About 8 yrs ago, I ordered an Ultrasound 50 Watt amp for about $500. I did a lot of research and this is still considered to be a great amp by just about every reviewer on the web. Well, it sure sucked for flamenco. I just wanted something so that I wouldn't have to play so hard in dance class but the tone became brittle and shrill when the volume was set where I needed it. The golpe "ping" was unbearable. I was using a K&K Pure Classic pickup at the time. I came to the realization that these amps are made for steel strung guitars and we flamenco players have special needs. I also tried the amp with a mic as it had an XLR input, but the feedback was not controllable, despite having a notch filter.
I'm looking for something small. Portability is an absolute must as I want to ride my bike or use public transportation whenever possible. I see a lot of interesting models out there, but not many of them can be found locally though I live in Portland, OR. Do I need an "acoustic amp" or an all-in-one PA? How should I evaluate speaker size, wattage, etc?
The following have caught my eye:
- ZT Lunchbox Acoustic, 200 watts and extremely portable. However, I have my doubt about the 6.5" speaker and how geared towards steel strings it is.
- AER Alpha. Expensive and might suffer from the same issue as the Ultrasound that I mentioned above. These can be found, locally, but if I don't have these other amps to A/B against it, I'll be wondering if I'm overspending.
- Phil Jones Cub, another small combo with great reviews as far as tone. It's volume capability gets mixed reviews.
- Roland BA-330, a portable stereo PA that is right on the upper edge of my size and weight requirements. It's only 30 watts, but supposedly very loud. It can also run on batteries which only makes me doubt it's volume limits.
- Acoustic Image Corus SE. I saw that Jason McGuire mentioned the Corus+ and how great it is. I like the concept of the 10" woofer pointed at the floor with seperate speakers to handle the other frequencies. About the same price as the AER and there's no local dealer as far as I can tell.
- Acoustic AG-60. I saw at_leo's review but when I handled it at Guitar Center, it seemed pretty bulky compared to everything above with the exception of the Roland BA-330
- Crate Limo. So many poor reviews about reliability that I've lost interest.
I'd like any opinions on the above or other suggestions. Thanks!
Maybe we should have an ongoing "sticky" thread as this subject will continue to surface as technology advances.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 3 2011 17:53:27
 |
|
at_leo_87
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
quote:
Acoustic AG-60. I saw at_leo's review but when I handled it at Guitar Center, it seemed pretty bulky
yeah, it's a pretty big boy. not bad when i pushed it around with a hand truck but whenever i ran into a set of stairs.... it was too heavy for dance class and not loud enough for larger, noisier venues. i sold it awhile ago.
don't underestimate the value of a good microphone. i've never heard a pick up that i liked. i really like the bartlett guitar mic. no feedback, high gain, no mic stand... but you need phantom power.
the acoustic image sounds great. and only 20 pounds and comes with a carry bag. 800 watts, phantom power, effects. sounds perfect for you. and if it works for jason...
although for gigs, i'd probably try to find a way to get it up off the ground.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 3 2011 19:03:08
|
|
Don Dionisio
Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
James,
If you're trying to 'cut through' a lot of noise, I'm not sure these amps are the best choice.
Personally, I use microphones and not pickups. I found 2 Rode NT5 mics used on ebay for a reasonable price (about $250). They work really well; although, they need phantom power. You could put them in a backpack with a small mic stand.
I use a Yamaha one speaker PA with a built-in mixer that I got at SamAsh.com, but it weighs about 30 lbs. The sound, though, is very clean, and it pumps out 250w. I have used it in medium to large sized halls and it can carry sound fairly well (if people aren't too loud). I use a very light, but sturdy stand so that it comes up about 6 ft. from the ground. I think I paid about $250 for this PA. I really like this set up, but I use my car to transport it.
Dennis
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 3 2011 19:03:30
|
|
at_leo_87
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
for dance classes, i use either:
-an EV zxa1 powered speaker. 800 watts, 17 pounds, $500.
this is my main speaker for gigs.
or
-a Behringer 205D powered PA speaker. 150 watts, 7 pounds, $200.
i use this for a monitor at gigs. i carry this thing around in a grocery bag... it's so light.
neither speakers have effects like reverb, so at gigs i use a mixer, but for dance classes, it's just important to be loud and clear. tone wise, they both sound good with the bartlett clip on. the EV obviously sounding 10x better.
but i dont have any experience with pickups and amplification.
pimientito showed me his set up a few weeks ago. he uses piezo picks ups and a trace elliot amp. it sounds pretty close to a well miked guitar. he told me it's only possible with a trace elliot amp. you might want to look into that but i know those things are darn expensive as well.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 3 2011 23:53:49
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
2 cents worth
as a personal user the AER and Acoustic Image [my duo partner uses one of these] come highly recommended...
been using AER for 10 years now and have no need to change...
few attenuation issues with the Acoustic Image which can be easily solved with a small mixer [ like the mackies!]
both great for personal monitoring...seems most of the flamencos in australia use the compact 60 as well as part of the production for the international guitar festival we have here.
but play the field i guess...see what you like...
antonio's set up sounds good as a PA system...i usually patch my AER into a house system via DI out so this may affect what kind of set up you are looking for...[ good for smaller venues with an attentive audience]
i'm either using a bartlett clip on or a sennhieser k6 condensor
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 4 2011 0:41:25
|
|
at_leo_87
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
quote:
At_leo, I'm interested in that EV zxa1. Seems like a lot of power for the price and weight. How's the sound/tone? Any drawbacks? The model that I found online has no EQ or phantom power.
no drawbacks. light weight. plenty loud. never had to turn it up even half way. huge dynamic range, high headroom, super natural sound (but that also depends on your mike). i'm really happy with it.
it has no eq or phantom power. but it's just a powered speaker after all. for dance class, i use it with a battery operated preamp. for shows, i use a mixer.
i did a lot of research before i got this speaker. the next step up would be a qsc speaker. but that's more expensive and heavier. so it's pretty top of the line.
i got the suggestion to use ev speakers from ricardo. he has a different model, i think.
quote:
I need something for dance classes that is around this price and portable enough to carry on the back of a bicycle. This looks perfect or can anyone recommend something better?
In classes I usually play unamplified or sometimes use a small roland cube. I assume this will be a big step up from a roland cube? I'm not expecting amazing sound for this price but I take it you think it's reasonably ok sounding, uncoloured and loud enough for classes, Anthony?
there's also the mackie version, which came first. even though the behringer is cheaper, people have said the behringer is actually made better with better materials. i just went straight for the behringer so i dont know about the mackie.
i've tried other portable pa systems. and i was really disappointed with them, including the fender and yamaha. great concept, it just doesnt sound good to my ears.
the b205d is surprisingly okay. if you can get by with playing unamplified or with a roland cube, im sure this will be loud enough for you.
with my bartlett, the sounds gets harsh sounding after you turn it up past half way. overall, it sounds okay.
but i think for the portability, volume, and price, i haven't found anything else that's better.
this has been my experience with my sets of mics, shure pg81, bartlett guitar mic, shure sm57, audix i5. i have no idea how any of these would sound with a pick up system. it's always worth it to try gear out first.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 4 2011 21:43:41
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
quote:
AlVal, I haven't really thought of using them as personal monitors. My application is mainly for situations where there is no PA at all.
guess the vibe is that amps will work well for classes and small rooms [0-150 attentive and quiet ppl] or with venues with house systems. i seem to do shows where the production is supplied but like control of my on stage sound, whether working with dancers or other musicians i like something coming back at me sound wise.....but you will probably find you will lack projection, control and headroom etc if trying to use it as a PA...[ out of the list you provided the acoustic image is by far the superior in headroom ,but quite costly ]
sounds like the powered speaker is a much better option for you...save some money as well...
also noticed yamaha do a great inbuilt mixer/speaker as well...small and lightweight...so looks like a few options there..
good luck...let us know what you end up with.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 4 2011 22:11:01
|
|
turnermoran
Posts: 391
Joined: Feb. 6 2010
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to James Ashley Mayer)
|
|
|
From reading the series of posts from start to finish, it seems you are letting go of the 'portability by way of bike or public transport' idea?
Because I think only the ZSounds is small enough to bike with. And I've heard not-so-great reviews.
I actually own Jason's Acoustic Image amp. So he changed his mind a bit. Having bought it and also having owned a Coda model, I think the Coda is better for nylon string. The Corus is a bit too midrange-y.
Personally I think it sounds more natural than the AER or Phil Jones, but the latter 2 have better forward projection. Like the science of acoustic sound (not that I'm a scientist), I think the most "natural" amps have a sort of "rounded out sound". Almost omni-directional. And amps that work to thrust the sound forward tend to sound more artificial. Unfortunately, throwing the sound forward is pretty much the definition of what an amp is supposed to do!
I recently compared the Bartlett mini mic to my Audio Techica omni pattern mini mic through my A.I. Corus, and found the Bartlett to be cleaner, quieter and more even across the frequencies. Very good on volume before feedback too.
I'm starting to think that the solution to most of my own playing situations is to use a volume pedal, as the biggest problem I have with mics is as soon as other people start playing and the collective volume raises, that's where it's most awkward to reach over and fiddle with knobs.
Btw- I have Jason's Bartlett mic too. Guess he changed his mind on that too. We both agreed that both products sound good. Unfortunately, not for every environment, and Jason plays in a lot of environments and situations where a particular rig sounds great one night, and feedbacks or sounds bad the next. Life of a rockstar I guess. :)
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 5 2011 9:57:37
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to turnermoran)
|
|
|
quote:
FET analyzer
thanks for that brian..
just reading your comments on A.I amps
was keen to buy one a few months back but had a real unsolvable issue with my mic overloading the preamp [high output sennhieser] well could solve with the aid of a mixer but really wanted to keep it simple ie just plug in and go.....massive amount of distortion...still couldnt get rid of it with the attenuation button.
tried the corus [my friend uses one of these]
but maybe should look into the coda...
thanks
Al
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 6 2011 2:01:59
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
RE: Amplification, yet again. (in reply to turnermoran)
|
|
|
thanks again.
will check out your recomendation though ie coda better for nylon...
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 6 2011 3:22:44
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.078125 secs.
|
Printable Version
