fandangos and bulerias

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

fandangos and bulerias

I have been listening, counting, singing along with fandangos for the past few days... a weird thing has happened. It has started to sound like bulerias!!!

Last night, on the way back from a gig, I was listening to Melchor de Marchena (who I hate, actually!!) He plays this solo bulerias for guitar, very fast, and I was counting along in "twos". 12 2 4, 6 8 10. Three taps followed by three taps. The third tap of the second group stronger (the "10). I started to think, it is absolute bunk to think of this as a twelve count system. It is a horrible way to think about bulerias 12 3 6 8 10. That is only one "configuration" that you might find, one "lick."

The "12 3" sound, sounds to me like a syncopation of 12 2 4. At least it makes a lot more sense that way to me.

Getting mixed up in all the minutae just makes it harder. Play it fast, listen to fast bulerias and just taps in twos. Everything sounds different fast, everything makes more sense. Slow bulerias is unnatural--like listening to a conversation in slow motion. Yooooooooooo Aaaaaaiiiidriiiiiiaaaaannnnn! It doesn't work!

Anyways, at fast speeds, the bulerias 12 2 4, 6 18 10, sounds a lot like Fandangos! 12 2 4, 6 8 10, 1 2 3 1 2 3. It sounds like the same thing. And sometimes Fandangos sounds like a fast solea. They will even use the accent pattern 12 3 6 8 10 12....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 15:48:55

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

And sometimes Fandangos sounds like a fast solea

Estela will be pleased

... and a fast solea sounds like bulerias - Emilio Maya says to me "Simon. Soleares por bulerias is just a fast soleares" - I played a faster soleares and he jammed around with a bulerias, sounded OK to me.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 18:27:56

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Escribano)

Yup, that's it IMO!
The longer you listen to Flamenco, you begin to hear the "cross fertilisation" between styles and gives you hints at.. but alas, never quite becomes tangibly clear and understandable that the whole thing is contained within the same cosmic sphere, as it were...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 19:45:31

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Yep, that is the compound meter, the SOUND of it, creating that effect. But it doesn't feel exactly the same. You don't want the 12,2,4 etc FEEL in your fandango, even though it sounds like that sometimes.

Now to mess w/ your head, listen to Manolo Sanlucar's Banderillas from Tauromagia. The cante parte "Cuando se Asoma..." to the end of that part. What happens there? Notice 12,2,4, doesn't work out. HA! That one is unique though.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2005 23:04:22

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Richard,
hey! While you're here, I want to listen to your rumbas. Don't you have a rumba CD out somewhere? I'd like to see what you do with them. Especially after observing the high level of skill you and Todd showed...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 0:39:09

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Its really strange, but i often get lost in the timing when trying
to write/improvise in Fandangos.

I dont know what it is. Alegrias and Bulerias seem easier.

Very odd.

TK

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 0:52:01

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Todd,
I think it is just a very syncopated and weird style. It's in 3/4, but the accent seems to often be on the 2, or the 3. I have been listening to a lot of old school fandagos and am learning a bunch of Juan Serrano falsetas, because I love Paco Pena's solo and I want to prepare to learn it. But listening to it, I realize that I just don't even have a clue what the heck he's doing ! Rhythmically, if you know what I mean.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 0:59:46

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Let me muddy up the discussion a bit

. I was taught fandangos compas in 6's, with accents on 2nd, 3rd and 5th beats:

1-2-3-4-5-6, 1-2-3-4-5-6
x-X-X-x-X-x, x-X-X-x-X-x

I think this is old school way. Also use this same structure for accompanying Sevillanas.

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 2:07:01

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Eddie,
that actually sounds like the recordings I have. Rather misleading to think of it in 3/4 in that light.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 3:10:04

eslastra

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Miguel,
That compas example is the basic one for Fandangos de Huelva. I've heard several variations of that pattern in the other styles of Fandangos. Perhaps that's why it can be difficult to notate, especially if styles are mixed in a composition. I was just listening to a Sabicas fandangos from his "El Rey del Flamenco" album and I immediately hear at least a couple of different compas variations.

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 5:03:26

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

i think of Fandangos as
* * boom * * Boom * * etc.. I find this style sort of easy to play. The problem is that it seems to deman a highly developed picado and arpegio technique.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 6:02:24

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to duende)

Why is that a problem for you? You have a highly developed picado and arpeggio technique, Henrik! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 14:46:12

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: fandangos and bulerias (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

well thank you Miguel but i nead to make my lowest level a tad or two higher to feel "safe"

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 18:42:15