On resting the thumb

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

On resting the thumb

It is an idiomatic part of flamenco techique to rest the thumb on string or even the soundboard (according to Anders), however, this is something I have always been slightly suspicious of...

why? Well, to achieve fluency in any technique, whether it be arpeggio, block chord, picado, or for that matter, anything to do with the left hand, balance is very important. You don't want one finger to predominate over the other ones. For example, playing picado, if your m is stronger and catches on the string, it will be like trying to run with a club foot, or with one shoe on and the other off.

The problem I have with resting and bracing the thumb is that it tends to make the hand lazy, so as not to seek balance. All the effort goes into resting in the thumb, and the fingers just fly and try to do their thing.

An experiment: play a right hand technique with the thumb in the air. Start slow, but speed up. Allow the hand to come to an equilibrium, "walking" on the fingers. This will probably cause your hand to rise a little, to redistribute its weight. Eventually you will reach a point of excellent balance, where you can play fast quite easily.

Try to do the same thing with the thumb planted on the soundboard. Of course it can be done, but it is not such a natural move for the body. I think you should practice with the thumb in the air to help you discover the best positions for the various RH techniques, and then use the thumb on the string or soundboard to assist you, even to help you gauge the correct distances, once the right position is found.

Otherwise you may find yourself trying to run while leaning one hand agaisnt the wall.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 19:29:32

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: On resting the thumb (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Mike,
This "resting the thumb" is done a lot it Flamenco, and is mistakenly taken as Gospel.
It's a good habit to get into, for it positions your fingers to get a more Flamenco sound.
But this is not set in stone IMO.
Watch some of the high flyers and you'll see them break the rule over and over again when playing technically complicated stuff.
Same with this "always rest strokes with the thumb" business...
Paco Peña, told me this, but watching him playing, close up in concert, he plays 50-50 thumb rest strokes and free strokes depending on what he is playing...

I personally think a good balance of the hand is to be able to play good, strong arpegio with the thumb either in the air, or when resting.
I don't play much picado, but I'd assume it to be the same.

I definitely see the hand, in Flamenco as a two-piece device, centred around the middle, where the thumb is a completely different thing to the fingers, as opposed to say "steel string" or "banjo" fingerpicking style etc, where the thumb and fingers are integrated into one movement.

As they say...quit worrying about technique and just play the damned thing!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2005 20:37:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: On resting the thumb (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

The problem I have with resting and bracing the thumb is that it tends to make the hand lazy, so as not to seek balance. All the effort goes into resting in the thumb, and the fingers just fly and try to do their thing.

Actually there is no effort at all, except for mental, and only when you are first getting used to it. Once you realize how easy it is and comfortable, it is just a "feeling", like there is weight there, or gravity, and then you feel really relaxed and controlled, "balanced". The problem is if you get used to the classical way, you have to learn it and that is the "mental" effort I am talking about. The physical effort is really nothing. Once you get it (rest stroke thumb opposite fingers), you realize the benefits. It is logic. It gives you stability and grip, and somthing to push your fingers against to get volume w/ out straining yourself or tensing up your arm. Of course there are times you dont' do it, but again that is not something you think hard about, you just feel it. Hope this makes sense.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2005 8:05:51

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: On resting the thumb (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I definitely see the hand, in Flamenco as a two-piece device, centred around the middle, where the thumb is a completely different thing to the fingers, as opposed to say "steel string" or "banjo" fingerpicking style etc, where the thumb and fingers are integrated into one movement.

Interesting observation, I can see what you mean. Especially given that the hand has to drop into a different, low position to do a lot of thumb work (well, mine does anyway...).

I rest the thumb whenever I can in flamenco, either on 6th string or touching the top and the sixth string. Stability is a good thing, not a bad thing. This is despite coming from a classical guitar background where I was taught to play with a free hand.
Mind you, if you go a little further back in history you find classical guitarists anchoring the pinky on the top for stability too. I believe it was Tarrega that promoted the whole free hand thing.

But anyway, my 'anchored thumb' comes free for some things and stays there for others.

I think many of these types of hand position 'rules' are simply there to establish good habits or some frame of reference for beginners - like the old 'knuckles parrallel to strings' thing or the 'always fret the notes with your fingertips perpenedicular to the fretboard'... and many others. Once you've been playing a while you soon discover how flexible things need to be.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2005 8:21:51

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: On resting the thumb (in reply to Ricardo)

Richard,
I'm not saying it's a bad habit or anything, to rest the thumb. I'm just saying that I have noticed that relying on the thumb has caused me problems, and I realized some very nice benefits from practicing without the thumb. However I almost always have it planted too. Actually I got this idea from your buddy Tino van der Smaan--apparently Nino de Pura does not plant during picado.

Let me put it this way: if you are not happy with the way your right hand is functioning, it could be a very useful self-diagnostic exercise to play without planting the thumb for awhile and see what happens. Obviously, after watching the video of Todd and Ricardo, Ricardo does not fall into this category :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2005 14:40:28